Podcast Episode 371: Puberty at 8?! What Parents Need to Know About The Crucial Years Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

A mom called and she said, I have a fifth grader I’m gonna bring, but I also wanna bring my third grader. And I was like, no. I don’t know if this is appropriate. And she was like, no, no, really? Like she’s got breasts and everything developing. I literally can remember it clearly. As soon as I saw the girl, I was like, yeah, she really does need to be here. She’s almost as tall as her fifth grade sister. She’s developed. And that started like 10 years ago, where I started realizing like, my gosh, kids could be as young as to upgrade in this.

JoAnn Crohn (00:33)

Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I’m your host JoAnn Crohn joined here by the brilliant Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker (00:40)

Hello, hello, everybody how are you? Guys, I am stoked about today’s episode because normally we have our little banter about everything that’s going on, but I just have to tell you our guest we have today. You have heard of her. You know her. You know her well.

JoAnn Crohn (00:58)

She’s one of the very first guests ever.

Brie Tucker (01:01)

I was going to say not only because of her amazing work, but because her episodes that she has been featured on are some of our most downloaded episodes. And she is the guest with the most. I was going to say the host.

JoAnn Crohn (01:14)

I think she might have also been like in part of our single digit episode numbers. Like this is how long. Oh yeah. Cause we’re on episode what? 360, 371 is this episode. And like we started back in 2020 and so it’s been such a ride and we greatly enjoy her and I’ve got to see her person and hug her. So without further ado, let me introduce her. Her name is Dr. Cheryl Gonzalez Ziegler and she’s a clinical psychologist, the bestselling author of Mommy Burnout and her newest book.

The Crucial Years, the essential guide to mental health and modern puberty in middle childhood. She’s also the podcast host of Dr. Shail’s podcast, a regular national and local news contributor and runs a private group practice in Denver, Colorado. Dr. Ziegler’s TEDx talk, Why Moms Are Miserable has over 1.3 million views and is all about the power of social connection. And as we said, she’s a No Guilt Mom 3 timer. So let’s get on with the show.

You want mom life to be easier. That’s our goal too. Our mission is to raise more self-sufficient and independent kids, and we’re going to have fun doing it. We’re going to help you delegate and step back. Each episode, we’ll tackle strategies for positive discipline, making our kids more responsible, and making our lives better in the process. Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. ⁓

There we go. We’ve seen multiple times before. You’ve been in our summit. And I was so excited to see you on CBS. Was it CBS Mornings? I was like, that’s my friend.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (03:07)

I get to do national stuff because you don’t know who’s watching who’s like someone might be watching is they’re gonna be on it but then there’s once in a while they’ll be like a couple people be like like I had a friend who was like I was in a hotel lobby and I looked up and I was trying to tell people like my god I know her my god I really like he they he really knew me he was like my childhood like one of my best friends from high school and was like my gosh anyway yes that’s been super duper fun everything about

This book tour and launching this book has been super fun.

JoAnn Crohn (03:38)

I’m excited to dig into it because this is something that I see echoed on a lot of like Facebook groups with parenting right now. There’s the question about, my gosh, my kid is only eight years old. Is it too young for them to be in puberty? And I just knew from talking with you through our summit that no, it is not too young. So can you give us a little intro into what you call these forgotten years, the six to 12 years old and.

what we may be seeing with them, including puberty starting a little bit earlier than we expect.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (04:11)

Yes. So there’s one thing I coined and there’s one thing I haven’t. So the thing I haven’t coined are the forgotten years. That’s actually like our lingo in the field of psychology. They’re called the forgotten years because… ⁓ Yes, that’s not the…

Brie Tucker (04:26)

No.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (04:27)

That’s like real and it really is because you know it started with Freud called it latency and then all these years leading up it was like yeah that kind of gets quiet their school-aged children they go off to school and people get their life

Brie Tucker (04:41)

They’re on autopilot. We’re good for a little bit.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (04:45)

Because you’re kind of like, we used to be geared up for high school, then I felt like, ⁓ no, now we got to get geared up for middle school. And now I’m so sad to deliver the news that you need to get geared up for like third

JoAnn Crohn (04:57)

You have to be conscious the entire time. No breaks, no breaks at all.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (05:01)

Maybe like K-1-2, take your biggest breather.

JoAnn Crohn (05:05)

Those kids have a lot of energy to this K one two energy. So like, what was the moment that made you realize how crucial this stage actually was?

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (05:12)

Yes, I think like it starts with my online class. with talk. Well, it’s not, it didn’t start as an online class. It was an in-person class. It still is, right? And I remember the first of all, when I created it, I was like, this is a sixth grade class. And then like, before we even launched it, my partner was like, no, I think it’s a fifth, sixth grade class. And I’m like, ⁓ really? I was like really bummed. And this is for context, almost 13 years ago. And I was like, okay. So then it was a fifth, sixth.

Great class, great. So then after the first one and I was doing the second one, people started calling and being like, hey, I saw your class, but I have a fourth grader. And I think I need to bring my fourth grader. And I was like, okay. And I literally even created what I called the younger kids version of the class. I still have it. And I was like, okay. So then I did that. Then by about my fourth class that I did, a mom called and she said, I have a fifth grader I’m going to bring, but I also want to bring my

third grader and I was like no.

Brie Tucker (06:15)

I can’t scare that kid.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (06:18)

I was like, no, I don’t know if this is appropriate. And she was like, no, no, really? Like she’s got breasts and everything developing. oh my gosh. I gave like a huge disclaimer. Give me eye contact if anything’s not okay. like, let’s just monitor. I was so like nervous. And then they come, I literally can remember it clearly. They’re like kind of front and center. And as soon as I saw the girl, I was like, yeah, she really does need to be here. She’s almost as tall as her fifth grade

sister, she’s developed, she was curious, she was smart, she wanted to know. That was when I realized, so that’s an anecdotal story. And that started like 10 years ago. And I started realizing like, my gosh, kids could be as young as third grade in this. So I would say by and large, it became a fourth, fifth class, not a fifth, sixth class. And then boom, the pandemic happened. Pediatricians, endocrinologists, they started reporting. Whoa, we’re seeing a lot of kids coming through.

now with either precocious puberty, so that’s seven and under for girls or eight and under for boys, or they were just coming in on that super early side. And so they started reporting it. So it was like simultaneous to the mental health crisis. We were having this earlier puberty and it all came together and I didn’t really think of it, but actually someone said to me, this is it. This is what you need to be writing about. And that’s how it came to be.

JoAnn Crohn (07:39)

those middle childhood years. It’s amazing how Huberti has shifted like that so fast. feels like since like just, mean, our generation was like 20, 30 years ago and it’s made such huge, huge shifts into now like parents, as we said earlier, you get no break in these middle childhood years. So many moms are in the thick of school drop-offs and homework fights and everything that really is common in these years. But what signs should they look for?

that their child is under a deeper stress than they realize.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (08:13)

Yep. Okay. So, and this can be whether your kid is in earlier puberty or not, right? So the whole book isn’t about just early puberty. It’s like, hey, this is middle childhood, something we don’t talk about. And here are all the things that could be happening. And so they could be in earlier puberty. And if they’re not, someone around them is though. So it’s still important to know. And then we’ve got these pressures. And I think that the words pressure and elementary school-age kids,

are not normally thought of together. We think their lives are pretty carefree and they’re pretty young. But what we know is that at this age, kids are reporting that academic pressure is number one for them. And so they are getting the message really early on. You know, you’re kind of done playing. Playing is something we reserve for a small amount of time throughout the day. And what you’re really here to do is learn, read, write, math, keep learning new ways to do math.

all the things.

Brie Tucker (09:14)

God,

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (09:18)

can’t do it. I can’t help it. I can’t help them. So I want parents to really soak that in. First of all, when you see your kid and they’re in this age range, you probably do not see them for very long. And your conversations are pretty precious because they do come home late. They might have sports or activities after school. You’re doing your thing. And so this is the time to really think about what is the emphasis that I’m putting on? Because there are other stages of development

that need to be nurtured, not just academic, that’s one, that’s just one and leave that to teachers and leave it to your role to be supportive. If they ask you for support, if they don’t ask you for help with your homework or support, these are the years, trust them, try to let them do it on their own. That’s the kind of independence and autonomy that they need during this time. Don’t waste your precious 20, 30 minutes with your kid on a school night.

Focusing on school, that’s not even what they want help with.

JoAnn Crohn (10:18)

my gosh, that is such powerful advice, Cheryl. I think everyone needs that advice because parents are very, worried about their kids’ academic success. it isn’t exactly what you said. It isn’t what kids need. So we’re going to get into what kids need right after this.

Now, something that you say that kids need in your book, Cheryl, is that they really need help on the social and emotional aspects. What can parents do at home to help them?

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (10:51)

So I think the first thing they can do, you’re gonna probably hear me say this more than once, but is you need to get educated because the truth is I am a child psychologist in practice for 25 years. And until I wrote this book, I didn’t even know. You could have asked me, you could have been like, okay, so what should we expect of a nine-year-old? And I would have given you a pretty good answer. But in the book, I literally break it down by age six, seven, eight, nine, and then I do 10, and then I do 11, fault combo. And what I did was just the way

when we all had babies and we knew their milestones, like it was so awesome, right? Like, can give you a quiz. can be like, at three months, what should a baby be doing? We all know, right? But if I say at six years old, what should a kid be doing?

Brie Tucker (11:36)

Showering on the road. Bam! That’s all I got.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (11:40)

They can shower on their own and, you know, I don’t know, start to read books, right? Start, like basic books, right? In terms of social-emotional, here’s what I did. So the six to 12 timeframe that I’m talking about is based on Erickson’s theory. And when you basically get done with this stage, you’re either industrious or you feel inferior. So he called it industry versus inferiority. Today’s modern terms, self-esteem, positive self-esteem.

or negative self-esteem, healthy or unhealthy. So I went through social-emotional, right? But these are the other categories too. Self-esteem, problem-solving, moral development, self-expression, responsibility, and attention span. So for every age in this- a lot. It’s a lot. it’s like, and I wrote like the simplest thing, no more than three sentences underneath it. I’m just going to take six, right? Under moral development, at six years old,

They’re still in the formative stage of what is right and wrong, fair and just. And they’re oriented toward fixed rules. They will rely on their immediate family’s rules to guide them in the world. So if you ask me, what is like one of probably the top three things I want people to understand is that you are still their favorite person, the smartest person, the most beautiful person in the world to a six to 12 year old.

not so much for 13, 14, 15, right? Maybe you go back to it when they’re in college. But there’s no big thing. When they’re done with this stage, right? They go off and it’s the identity years. So we’re done with these industrious years. And so what you want is you want to go, oh, these aren’t the forgotten years. This is my twist. These are my years of opportunity. I get to influence my kid.

They’re gonna actually listen to me. If I tell them that’s wrong, that’s not what you do, you do this. They’re gonna listen. When they’re 14, they’re gonna push back and they’re gonna say, you know what, but I think there’s exceptions to that actually. They’re gonna have positive opinions, right? And that is really cool. But if you have some strong values and there are things that really matter to you, it is now, and it’s not even zero to five. Zero to five is you’re keeping them alive. You’re working on your attachment. They’re working on safety and security in the world. That’s what you’re providing zero to five.

6 to 12, you’re providing competency, you’re providing opportunities for them to practice things, you’re providing them with moral grounding and value. And then they head off to the teen years. And in a way, this book is a roadmap to healthier teenage years. And in their teen years, there’s their identity, they’re figuring out who am I looking for? Who are my people? You want them to know who they are first before they start looking for their people.

Brie Tucker (14:24)

You’re talking about how this goes until like about age 12. But I feel in my bones that my kids started leaving listening to me and me having any authority around 10 11. Is that normal? Nowadays since we’re talking about this whole like puberty is that is that part of the whole puberty process starting earlier? Is that a societal thing more so?

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (14:47)

Yeah, I think it can be probably the trifecta of your kids temperament. If your kids a little bit more strong willed, then they, right? So a strong willed child, and I don’t mean like extreme or anything. just mean, yeah, like sort of strong willed in the world. Yes, they start to kind of be like, these are my thoughts and values, maybe a little bit sooner. That’s one factor. The second factor is their environment. Do they go to the kind of school where they teach them debates and critical thinking and they encourage that if that’s the kind of school they go to?

Brie Tucker (15:16)

I would hope so. Yeah. Yeah, we’ll say it’s the school. It’s the school. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (15:21)

Absolutely. It’s funny though, Cheryl, you mentioned all of those social-emotional skills like moral development and capability. When we’re in the working world and work with other adults, those are the skills actually that make someone very pleasurable to work with versus someone who is hard to work with. So it’s interesting to me how we as parents tend to harp on the academics versus those social-emotional skills, which are really the most important thing for them to succeed in the world.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (15:21)

Really.

Yes, I’m so happy you just talked about this and this is fresh on my mind because I just got back from LA late last night and I did a segment two days ago and it was the segment was how EQ helps IQ in middle childhood. And it was so good for me to even prep this because simply put our emphasis on these academics, we have got to look to the future, which I know a lot of parents don’t fully understand. Maybe none of us fully, but

AI and these technological advances, they got a lot of things that are like academic, right? We’re to have to learn how to work with it. So when you look at the future and you ask employers, what are they looking for? It’s exactly what you said. A team player, right? That’s one thing. Somebody who knows how other people feel, that’s empathy. They call them these human-centric. I think we’ve gone away from these soft skills because they’re not soft skills at all.

They’re human centric. We got the technology. It’s only going to continue to evolve, but we need people who understand other people who are good with other people. And then they can take the humanness of whatever industry I’m in, find out what it is you really need, customer, client, and then use technology to make that happen. So I really want parents to understand this EQ piece, this social emotional piece is actually

absolutely more important today than it ever has been.

JoAnn Crohn (17:23)

Well, let’s talk about that technology component, Cheryl, because there’s also a big preoccupation of parents with the screen time and the amount of time their kids are on screens, knowing that in the future, technology is going to be a big part of it. So what important conversation should we be having with our kids in the six to 12 year range about screens?

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (17:45)

So much and I will tell you that in the book, this is probably the chapter I think I might be most proud of just because there’s nothing that I have seen and I feel like I’ve read almost everything that I could find, but there’s nothing that I’ve seen that really is geared towards six to 12. They’re mostly these kinds of articles and stats and all the research is really geared toward teenagers. And part of that is because you’re supposed to be 13 and older to be on social media apps. So there’s a lot of focus on

How many hours a day are teens on? But six to 12, just like everything I’ve been saying, you get to lay the foundation. I had this book launch party in Santa Monica and a mom looked at me and she was like, literally nodding, she was stressed out. And she was like, my God, my God, my kid is eight and I’ve done everything wrong. Of course, moms always think I’ve done everything wrong. I don’t think I’ve

Brie Tucker (18:34)

It’s always mom’s fault, but we’ll let that go. exactly.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (18:37)

And he was looking at me horrified and I was like, no, it is not too late. It’s no matter where you are. But I think a couple of things for parents to know is that in this country, most children have their first smartphone by the age of 10. 10, okay? And three quarters will own it by 12. And probably, I bet it’s even a little bit higher now. So we’re talking half to three quarters between 10 and 12 get smartphones.

So what does that mean? That means you all of sudden at like nine or whenever before they’re gonna get one, you have to start talking to them about everything from deepfakes to filters to time management to if they have ADHD or any other kind of neurodevelopmental, atypical type of way that they think and function, they’re going to be more sucked into it. That is crystal clear. And 40 % of eight to 12 year olds are already on social media.

you’re gonna need to talk to them about safety, security, boundaries, group chats. And I will tell you, when I say this, a lot of parents are like, I don’t even know if I know enough to tell my kid. And I’m like, right, so that’s why you don’t give it to them until you really feel like you’ve got the time to put in to learn it good enough, right? Which is probably a lot more than what the average person knows right now. And so I provide those kinds of scripts.

I pulled out like this chapter, I’ve got tons of overflow. didn’t make it into the chapter, but I left in here what I thought were at least fundamental for in it. then basically like I’ll take a topic and then I’ll say what parents need to know. And I don’t make it too long. And then what kids need to know. It’s almost like a script so that a parent, even if they need to, they literally can just take the book and just be like, okay, digital citizenship, you know, and then I have the way.

JoAnn Crohn (20:28)

really well when talking to kids as well because they like to know that you are learning right alongside them. I think a lot of parents, and if you’re one of them right now listening, don’t get caught up in thinking you need to know everything. You could totally take this book and learn right alongside your kids and your kids are going to have so much info to share. know my kids, anytime I’m like, hey, I’ve been hearing about this, like, what do you think about it? What are you seeing? And they add in info like I didn’t even know based on like what kids are doing in their classroom.

So it’s just an opportunity for conversation. After this, Cheryl, we’re going to get into some other conversations that you recommend parents can have with their kids to shape that mental health and self-esteem right after this.

So what can we do as parents? We talked about screens. What are other conversations that we need to have with kids in these crucial years?

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (21:24)

So there’s a couple topics that I pick. And I think, again, people are going to go to this when they probably need it, right? So you might hear something and you go, oh, that’s not an issue for us. And then boom, six months later, you’re like, oh, now it is.

Brie Tucker (21:37)

all the time, I swear!

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (21:39)

It does. And I will say the most positive part of the feedback, I think so far that I’ve gotten about the book is the layout of it. It lends itself to that. Okay, if you don’t want to read it cover to cover, read what works for you today and just know the rest of it is in there, right? And so I think there’s body image, there is relationship with food, there’s disordered eating, there’s sports pressure stuff. There are really a lot of topics.

I’d say the next one after screens that people seem to be most though curious about is really regulation, which means you got a kid with really big feelings or maybe even you yourself as a parent, you get triggered and you get really big feelings or you get angry or you yell. it feels like, like I intended that to be one chapter and it wound up being two because there was just way too much information. So I broke it down. The first chapter starts with the parent. Hey parents, this is a triggering time.

If you realize it or don’t realize it, lot of stuff happened in your life, six to 12, right? Yeah. Moves, divorces, death, loss, friendship changes. So sometimes parents are getting triggered by the stuff going on during this time. And then there’s the next chapter. So first regulate yourself as a parent. Then there’s the chapter on how to support your kids so that they learn to self-regulate because you’re not with them all the time. And it’s an essential tool we need throughout our entire lifetimes.

So it’s not just a childhood thing. So I’d say that’s probably the topic that people are most curious about, right after or right with screens.

JoAnn Crohn (23:13)

With parents, you recommend a few strategies for them to help with this regulation and tools like attunement and containment and conceptualizing those challenges with a calm lens. Can you give us just an overview of those three tools that parents can put into use?

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (23:31)

Yes, I know people probably can’t see me right now, but I have a smile on my face because it’s so cool that when I was trained in everything that you said, which is a lot of attachment therapy kind of stuff, I was trained in the nineties people. And at the time, nobody really talked about these things like at all. So a week ago, I got to do this book signing and one of my only bosses really ever and my mentor was in the audience front and center. And she invested so much in me.

so that I learned this and so that I brought it to our team and our organization. And she’s standing there and I looked at her and I said to her, can you believe that everybody’s talking about this? They’re using these terms that were like just in our world and she just smiled, but we talked about it for so long. We talked about containment for so long. So these again are strategies that you use with your kid that really bring your regulatory skills to your relationship. So what that means is,

Go back to thinking about when you had a baby and the baby was crying, right? Think about those first couple of weeks. You kind of quickly as a parent realize, that cry means this. ⁓ when they do this, it means that, they’re rubbing their nose, they’re tired. Like you just started to know where other people might say, my gosh, the baby’s getting fussy, what do they need? And then boom, as a parent in week three, you’re like, boom, they have a dirty diaper. Like you just, you knew, you were reading their signs.

And then that’s how you establish a really healthy relationship. The baby knew, I do this, this need gets met. Beautiful. So then they become toddlers and then, you know, young children and they’re not crying in that same way. Now they’ve got verbal skills. So what you need to do though, is you need to come in with your own skills. So containment says, basically, I have you contained, psychologically safe. I’m going to use-

proximity. I’m going to either do eye contact because that will be right, or I’m purposely not going to do eye contact because I think you’re going to talk more. Containment also means that you have my full presence. I’m going to come down to your level. I might sit on the floor. That’s actually really important. When they’re escalated and you’re escalated, remember, you’re still bigger than them. When you stand over somebody,

That’s threatening and intimidating, whether you mean to or not, it just is. ⁓ Boom, come down. Right? You’re going to change your tone of voice. It might become very, very soft. And then it changes the tone of what we’re doing, even though they’re getting really, really big. So containment says, I’m a tuning. I’m watching you. A tuning means just like it sounds, I’m tuning into your feelings. Even if I don’t know why it’s happening, I’m tuning into you and I’m figuring out how to best respond. Sometimes that means

I gotta take a break or you have to take a break. Sometimes that means you need a hug. Sometimes it means you need some food and you’re hungry. Sometimes it means let me get you a cool rag and put it on you. It can mean a lot of things, but to be contained and containing somebody else means that you are regulated enough to be in relationship, hang in there with it. It usually doesn’t last that long. When you get good, this is a few minutes, but it’s a few uninterrupted intentional minutes. So.

I give a lot of those because if parents could just learn these strategies, I think more than half of your dysregulation problems with your kid will really subside and they will learn these things just like they learned to grab that lovey when they were three years old, when they were upset, they’re going to learn the skills that they need for their whole life.

JoAnn Crohn (27:08)

Absolutely. Like trying to dig in and find out the underlying cause of their kids behavior is such an important thing. And it’s actually like a life-changing parenting. I almost think it’s a hack, even though it’s not a hack, but it’s something that when parents who are used to reacting and used to really fighting back against their kids start doing this, they see it almost as a magic trick.

Brie Tucker (27:32)

Imagine how much more harmonious the world would be if some particular adults that we all know very well in places of power had better emotional regulation. Had had some containment and safe secure situations growing up. They might be able to handle upset this better.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (27:52)

from leadership for sure right leadership I think the parents as leaders do parent leadership

Brie Tucker (27:59)

We are the CEOs of it all so we are in leadership

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (28:03)

We are. It would change the world. mean, think about road rage. Think about, right? Right? All the things in which, or everything even from racism. I mean, there’s lots of things that because something scares us or something is different than us, we are intimidated by it. So when you confront a stressor, you’re going to fight, flight or freeze. And if I’m not in touch with, whoa, what just triggered me?

Why? What’s underneath it, right? And so in the book, I talk about the tornado and a volcano and the iceberg. These are all great ways that you can just have a lingo with your kid. I talk about windows of tolerance. Like, yeah, I didn’t handle that so well this morning. My window like slammed shut when that sort of thing happened. I know what mine is like. I recently used it. So I’ll tell a real story. My daughter sent me a text. It’s like six ⁓

Brie Tucker (28:49)

Yeah.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (28:58)

It was 5.59 and there was a meeting at six o’clock and she said, all the moms are already here. Where are you? I’m fully admitting I was fully triggered. Now again, JoAnn, you might’ve gotten that one and you might be like, hey, no problem, babe. I’ll be there in 10 minutes.

JoAnn Crohn (29:17)

It’s like, what the are you doing? I’m right here.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (29:21)

Yes, I like, I went off. really did. I went off. was like, yeah, well, I don’t know what all those moms were doing today, but I know what I was doing. I mean, I like went off. She replied, I’m sorry, I’ll see you when you get here. She knew I was like, back it up, sister. I’m going to be there. I was four minutes late. I really was just, you know, finishing up. I mean, I got so triggered, but why was I triggered? I mean, I thought about that one because I

on a different day might have handled it better. But yeah, I was triggered because I am working a ton right now. And I don’t want to miss anything for my kids. And I don’t want to be perceived as a bad mom. And I want validation that I’m working really hard. Like,

JoAnn Crohn (30:05)

Rebelliation! Rebelliation!

Brie Tucker (30:08)

Kids did knowledge like can I just share with you guys my phone is on do not disturb as we’re recording this yet You know that there are certain contacts that can get through My daughter has texted me no less than five times Asking to get called out so she can go get lunch because they didn’t have the food she wanted at her high school for lunch today All I texted back was can’t an interview five texts since that I Would blow up at her she walked through the store right now because there’s no validation. There’s no understanding that like

JoAnn Crohn (30:26)

Yep.

Brie Tucker (30:38)

Right? Like, yeah, that window of tolerance is slam shut for me right now.

JoAnn Crohn (30:43)

Exactly. like knowing those triggers and also hearing everything we talked about in this episode, when a parent finishes this episode, Cheryl, and they want to take just one small action to show up for their child during these crucial years, what would you recommend they do?

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (30:58)

recommend that they tune into themselves first and just say, what am I enjoying about this age right now? Whatever their age of kids, right? What am I enjoying about this? Because that’s probably where they themselves are feeling competent. And then maybe ask themselves, what’s really challenging for me right now? And whatever is really challenging, and it could be everything, could be, yeah, my kid is already strong willed, they’re already moody. They’re telling me things that I don’t even know what to say, whatever it might be.

I would say get educated because this is not the same elementary school age years that we went through. Get educated and learn how to have open conversations with your kids. Everything from, we didn’t talk about puberty that much, but everything from being comfortable talking to your son about masturbation to being comfortable talking to your daughter about her breast development.

or either of the kids about their body odor and their need for better hygiene. Like for some people, they might be like, who has a problem with that? I tell my kid all the time. think other parents will be like, my gosh, I don’t want to make my kid feel bad.

Brie Tucker (32:09)

I’ll be honest with you. I’m that parent that’s like, don’t want to tell my kid that they need deodorant. Like I always like was pretty.

JoAnn Crohn (32:16)

Kid who was not told they needed deodorant and I was ostracized in my seventh grade class for it. And so I’m always like straight on that smell. I’m like, okay, we’re smelling a little bit. Let’s do a shower. Let’s go get deodorant. Let’s go.

Brie Tucker (32:32)

to walk out the door and JoAnn’s like, check! Every lift you are!

JoAnn Crohn (32:35)

I have such a well-developed of smell from that whole experience that I can smell immediately.

Brie Tucker (32:42)

good points. There’s a lot of topics that I get very squeamish about because in my childhood, they weren’t talked to me about. So I don’t know how to even engage in that conversation. So I have to say I do love in your book, Cheryl, the fact that you have so much support in their ideas and how to have the conversations and getting started on them.

JoAnn Crohn (33:03)

Thank you.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (33:04)

I want to point out just listening to the two of you, literally you had two, know, JoAnn didn’t share, but you have two different experiences in childhood that I am very sure are informing this exact conversation. Right? For you, Bri, nobody talked to you about it, so you’re repeating that pattern. That’s what we do. We unconsciously repeat the patterns, right? We can stop any pattern we want, but we got to be conscious of it even happening. And JoAnn, for some reason, I’m going to guess that either

You said nobody talked to you about like the whole armpit thing. had, what happened to you was you had a blunt negative experience. And so now you’re bringing to the table, like someone told you it just wasn’t apparent, right? A teen. ⁓

JoAnn Crohn (33:47)

I heard them whispering right next to me during class. Yes.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (33:51)

Right, so do you see what I mean though? Someone told you, even if it was cruel and it was, but someone told you. And so now you’re really sensitive to this. And so because you’re sensitive to it, you’re on it with your kids, right? And in Brie’s case, nobody had this conversation with her. Maybe nobody said anything to her in school that you know of. And so you’re just going into it this way. And so that’s why I said to, when you said what’s one thing, like a parent to think about.

What’s hard and challenging for me right now, like you’re not the only person, it will be in the book somewhere because there are themes that are really challenging during these ages and they just, haven’t been given a name. And so we just haven’t been able to talk about it. But what we experience as kids is very likely going to repeat itself the way we parent ages of these kids. So again, if there’s things you’re really proud of and they went great, great, you’re gonna rock it there.

And there’s probably gonna be other areas that will screens. Like there was no talking to you about screens.

JoAnn Crohn (34:50)

Yeah, definitely. Well, Cheryl, listen, listen, a high note. What is not like the whole episode hasn’t been a high note. It’s been great. It is a one thing that you’re looking forward to that’s happening in your life.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (35:02)

yes. Well, I am looking forward to the hurry up to slow down. So right now I’m in a like, I’m doing a million interviews and not a million, you know, but I’m doing a lot of interviews and talking about it. And I’m really looking forward to that. And simultaneous, I’m looking forward to probably like end of June, where I’m going to like be so chill. And I’m going to be so much slower and very relaxed and working like half the amount I normally do and really enjoying the start of my daughter’s senior year in high school. That’s like…

JoAnn Crohn (35:38)

Our daughters are starting senior year too. It’s crazy.

Brie Tucker (35:42)

Crazy.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (35:45)

So bad. So I’m not looking forward to that, but I’m looking forward to at least going into it again with an intention to be like, I do not want this year to fly by and me think like, my gosh, I was so busy or distracted. I’m gonna really, really focus on like presence and slowing down and doing less.

JoAnn Crohn (36:05)

Always a slowing down. Got us a slow down. Well, thank you so much, Cheryl, for joining us for the third time and we will talk to you later.

Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler (36:13)

Thanks guys.

JoAnn Crohn (36:16)

I always love talking to Cheryl. Like it’s always a blast. She’s so well prepared and she’s able to quote those facts and those figures like so easily. I saw her, she was turning through her notebook and I’m like, this is like a master class. I’m giving an interview of her notebook. This is amazing, Cheryl.

Brie Tucker (36:33)

Cheryl because I just feel like she’s one of those people that really gets it. Really gets it, really understands the struggles, especially the ones that face us as moms. And talking about too, like these years, that six to 12 is hard, married, single parenting, solo parenting. It doesn’t matter. It’s a hard one. And like when we got off, I shared a story with her about how I knew things that I wanted to tell my daughter.

because they were things that weren’t told to me and I had to figure it out on my own. Shaving my leg and using feminine products. Those were things that nobody taught me, we didn’t talk about in our house, and I just had to figure it out on my own. Luckily I had older sisters, so at least I had supplies. So I made sure I told my daughter that. But then I remember randomly one Tuesday night watching TV with my kids and my son, who was 11 at the time, turns to me and goes, Mom, my balls really hurt. And I’m like, as a single parent at that moment, I was like, ⁓

JoAnn Crohn (37:32)

know you don’t know what you don’t know it’s right good it’s like

Brie Tucker (37:37)

But it helps to have something behind you. So I really do. Like I know we talked to Cheryl before. She was excited about writing this book. I love this book, The Crucial Years. It’s so well written. It’s such an easy handbook to use. It’s fantastic.

JoAnn Crohn (37:51)

So yeah, all her work is fantastic. So you can grab the Crucial Years right on our link below in the show notes. If you’re listening on a podcast app or go to our website, knowgetmom.com, please share this episode with a friend, share it with somebody that you don’t know. And until next time, remember the best mom is a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker (38:12)

Thanks for stopping by.