Podcast Episode 409: He’s Not Helpless: Busting the Myths About Male Partners Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

JoAnn Crohn (00:00)

Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I’m your host JoAnn Crohn and here with the brilliant Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker (00:08)

How are you?

JoAnn Crohn (00:09)

Today we are discussing something that impacts both men and women. It’s the patriarchy.

Brie Tucker (00:16)

⁓ God, that patriarchy. So I was going to tell everybody like how we came to this topic, but am I jumping too far?

JoAnn Crohn (00:22)

Tell them, tell them how we came.

Brie Tucker (00:24)

So the other day I was on Instagram and I saw our good friend, mom life comics, which is Mary Katherine star. He’s been on the podcast a couple of times. We absolutely love her work and she had dusted off an old post, brought it back, an old cartoon about the patriarchy and the lies that we’ve been told. And that fits right into the narrative of we’ve been sold a long, long story about what women and men are supposed to do, especially in a family type relationship that makes it where it’s almost incompetence is given. ⁓

JoAnn Crohn (01:05)

I heard it a lot from my mom in particular, just the older generation and a lot of actually our peers say stuff like, men can’t be relied on to do those things. And this episode, we’re talking about these lies that Mary Katherine brought forward about these beliefs we have about what men can do in the home and what men can’t do in the home. And today we are going to shatter them. So this episode is for you. If you feel like you’re carrying the household mental load alone, if you’ve heard excuses like men just don’t see the mess or nurturing comes easier for moms. If maybe you’re perpetrator of these excuses, no blame here. We’re just recognizing our own patterns. And if you want to stop buying into these cultural myths that excuse unequal household labor, because we’re done with it, Brie, aren’t we? Like we’re done with hearing these excuses.

Brie Tucker (01:58)

Yeah, I mean, we’re going to tell you what are like five common myths or lies, however you want to say it, that we feel we’ve been given over the years to expect less from our male partners. And we’re going to kind of flip the script on it and ask questions about, it true? Is it really true? Because we don’t think they’re true. Yeah. And if you want to dive more into this, we have a link in the show notes to Mary Catherine’s post on Instagram.

as well as a link to the two episodes that she’s had with us here on the No Guilt Mom podcast. And you can certainly like dive in some more to this because there’s a lot we could do way more than a one 30 minute episode on this.

JoAnn Crohn (02:39)

So by the end of this episode, you’ll know exactly why those he just can’t excuses aren’t true and how to stop them from running your family so you have more control in the situation. So let’s get on with the show. So in the post on Instagram, Mary Catherine posted these five lies of patriarchy about men. So we’re going to run through them really, really quickly.

And then we promise you all we’re going to spend a little bit more time dismantling each one, but like, we say it, nod your head along and see if you’ve heard this one before. So number one, men just don’t see household mess. Is this true brie.

Brie Tucker (03:18)

No, no, not true at all. Like they have two eyes. They can see it. They’ve just been trained that it’s not their problem. Like as my teen would say, Ooh, that sounds like a you problem. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (03:31)

I think it’s intentional though, like the whole training that is not your problem, it doesn’t mean that they’re saying in their heads, ⁓ my wife will take care of that, or like my mom will take care of that, which is our kids. I don’t think they’re saying that.

Brie Tucker (03:43)

I think summer.

JoAnn Crohn (03:46)

Maybe some are, but I don’t think the majority of male partners would be like, I’m just going to leave my trash right here for my wife to take care of. mean, that’s, that’s something that I think is more problems in the partnership if that is the case versus what I think from an armchair expert view of what is actually going on in the situation.

Brie Tucker (04:04)

So the only thing I’m going to push back on that one, and again, we would love to hear your guys’ feedback about this. I feel like what that says of men just don’t see the household mess. I see that as I walk into the kitchen and there are dishes in the sink that need to go into the dishwasher. The countertop is sticky. The trash lid doesn’t go all the way flat because the trash is overloaded. My husband, God bless his soul, you know I love him to death, would not notice all of that. He would notice the sticky counter if you put something down on it and then he would clean it. But he would be like, okay, we’ll get to it later and we’ll be the wheel. He’s saying is like our family. I walk in and I’m like, this has to be dealt with. Like this is not okay. And he doesn’t think that way. And that’s what I mean by they don’t see it. That’s what I mean by that.

JoAnn Crohn (04:59)

Do you think they see it, but I don’t think they think it’s a priority that needs to be dealt with right now. And I know this through talking with my husband. He sees the dishes, like we’ve had numerous discussions about the dishes and what I think, I’ve told him what my story is, that I see the dishes that he hasn’t done. And I think that he expects me to do them. And he’s like, no, I don’t expect you to do them at all. I’m gonna do them later. I can’t do them right now. I have way too much I’m thinking about. I have all of this on my plate. So I think it’s more of a priority misalignment, then it is so much of a thinking that other people will do it for them.

Brie Tucker (05:34)

It could be, but I do think that there’s definitely men out there that are like, that’s not my job. 

JoAnn Crohn (05:39)

There’s definitely men out there who think that’s not your job. And that is a bigger issue than what we are talking about today.

Brie Tucker (05:46)

Just like I am certain my husband would have a list of some things that they say about women and he’d be like, yeah, my wife is totally like that 100 % but we digress we’ll move on because there’s more of these to chat about the second one is that Men aren’t good at multitasking. What do you think of that one? Joy? Truth?

JoAnn Crohn (06:06)

I don’t think multitasking is a good thing. So it’s not multitasking, it’s task switching where you are not doing a lot of things at once. Your attention is actually separated into doing one thing and then it’s going to this thing. So you can’t keep a coherent line of thought. Now, is it essential that you get good at task switching when you have small children? Yeah, you have to because they will interrupt you every second of the day.

Brie Tucker (06:33)

Yeah. And I think that there is also a part of that fallacy saying that men are good at multitasking or task switching, either way you want to label that. That implies it’s like a natural talent. And I think we weren’t born learning to juggle 15 different tasks at once, but to like make dinner, watch the kids, feed the dog, clean up the kitchen. Like we were not born to do that. You have to learn those skills as needed. And you’re often put into a situation where you have to learn how to do that. And I do think that men are maybe not as often put into that situation in their home. And that’s why we don’t see it as much from our male spouses at home, maybe.

JoAnn Crohn (07:18)

Yeah, I think that there’s been a long history in line of women taking over everything in the home and men seeing that. And so it just continues generation through generation, repeating the same habits and behaviors. So it’s not that they aren’t good at multitasking. It’s more of a general conversation that needs to take place where the tasks are more equalized, where the women’s not taking on everything and has to multitask as much would be the ideal. I would say so.

So number three, nurturing doesn’t come naturally to fathers.

Brie Tucker (07:54)

BS on that. Big BS. Like dads can be just as involved in nurturing their children as a ⁓ mom is, but I do believe that they have never been expected to as a society, not in your own relationship, in your own family. That’s completely different. But as a whole, as a society, women are expected to do most of the child rearing and men are expected to support the family. And we know as moms that have worked and raised children that it is hard to do both, but it’s not necessarily the fact that they’re not good at being nurturing and they don’t care about taking care of their kids. Society doesn’t have it set up to support them to do that. It really isn’t.

JoAnn Crohn (08:43)

It doesn’t. Dads who choose to stay at home and the women works, it is even lonelier being a stay at home dad than it is being a stay at home mom. Because at least at stay at home moms, you have other women in your situation where you could talk with them, you could chat with them, you could like discuss all of the hardships and everything about it. Men don’t really have as many stay at home dads that they can rely on.

Brie Tucker (09:07)

That’s the exception and not the norm. I think that’s exactly like we’re going with that, right? Like there aren’t as many supports out there for men that want to be very involved in their children’s lives and possibly even being a stay at home dad because that’s not the norm. That’s still an exception, but we are seeing more of it and I do enjoy that for sure. So, all right, number four, men are bad at finding things. What do you think?

JoAnn Crohn (09:33)

This, I want to know like what things they’re finding. like finding things related to the home, finding things like children’s doctors’ phone numbers, all those things that we really have on our phones are easily accessible because we’re the ones who are taking on everything and know where everything is. So I would say it’s like not just finding things, it’s more of a bigger picture of what they’re in charge of and what they know where it is. What did you see about this one?

Brie Tucker (10:03)

I feel like what you’re describing is mental load. Women tend to have a higher mental load expected of them in the home. And it might be expected of them because they’ve been doing it for so long, or it might be expected of them because again, that that was the roles that you and your partner decided upon. You know, again, it changes for everybody. But I do think that when you’re not expected to be the one that collects the trash, when you’re not expected to be the one that cleans up after the kids have had a bath, then you’re not gonna notice that the bathroom is messy and the water needs to cleaned up and the towels need to be hung up. Because if you’re not normally doing that and in charge of that, you don’t see it the way someone who is in charge of it sees it.

JoAnn Crohn (10:49)

Yeah, it’s kind of like this patriarchal lie is talking about the symptom of the actual issue, but it’s not addressing the real issue. Whereas like the symptom is, they’re about to finding things, but the real issue is because things haven’t really been delegated for them to do. So they have no idea the processes or systems involved. Yeah.

Brie Tucker (11:08)

Exactly, exactly.

JoAnn Crohn (11:09)

Yeah, and this one ties back into our first one, Messes Just Don’t Bother Them. ⁓

Brie Tucker (11:16)

⁓ I have been in both situations, so I understand. I’m going to say that’s a false because my first husband was very neat and I would get told often how messy I was and how I couldn’t keep things clean and how I caused so much work because I didn’t clean up enough after myself. My current husband if anything, like I’m the one who cleans up more and like, it’s not a matter of them, like you said, not being bothered by the mess. They have a different tolerance for it than we do because I do believe this and tell me if you agree with this or not, especially podcast land people. I think that if someone were to come to your home and it were messy, a woman would be like, my gosh, they think that I’m a slob. They think that I can’t keep a house. The man probably does not think that.

JoAnn Crohn (11:54)

Yeah.

I disagree because of my own personal experience with it. I am definitely the more messy one in our relation, like my relationship with my husband, he is neater than I am. But he’s also an all or nothing kind of neat. So either he has the time and the energy to do it perfectly, or he won’t do it at all.

And I’m kind of more in the middle, I will be like, okay, I’m gonna make the bed. But yeah, the corners aren’t perfect. And it’s not perfectly like blankets are smoothed down, but it’s good enough for me. And I can turn off this whole like looking at my house and thinking it’s a mess when people come over and I see it more as a it’s lived in this is how our real life looks. There’s not like food rotting on the table or anything like it’s generally clean. But is there a bit of clutter? Yeah.

There’s a bit of clutter and it’s okay.

Brie Tucker (13:08)

you subscribe to that, I remember these signs being so popular a while back, the whole like, excuse the mess, we’re making memories. Like that I do think is a healthy thought process. And I wish I had more of it.

JoAnn Crohn (13:20)

I don’t care. I have so many other things that I’m dealing with and I guess it’s all of my also semi-rage against the patriarchy that I feel like as a woman you’re supposed to clean house and that makes me not want to and so I don’t do it. That’s why like looking at this message just don’t bother them. I’m like well I mean you have to see the perspective on it. Are we as women expected to make things too neat and clean? so neat and clean that it is really getting to our personal sanity and our own productivity and what we want to do because we’re stuck in the societal expectation.

Brie Tucker (14:00)

Right. And you know what else? Let’s also point out our role that we do have in it. If I am constantly telling my partner that they aren’t doing it up to snuff, like the example I gave a while back, like where my husband was cooking and I’m like, are you cutting those in the one inch squares? Like, I’m surprised the man came back to cook dinner again, because yeah, in that moment I realized how much I was like totally trying to micromanage him and I was making him feel like he wasn’t his best effort,

Brie Tucker (14:30)

wasn’t good enough.

JoAnn Crohn (14:31)

Which is horrible to feel in a relationship. Yeah.

Brie Tucker (14:34)

And that is not what I meant by any means it was 100 % the fact that I did not like bell peppers and he was cutting them too big for my taste that was all

JoAnn Crohn (14:42)

Which if you said that, you’re like, hey, I don’t like these. Could you cut them smaller so I don’t have to taste them? I’d be like, yeah, sure.

Brie Tucker (14:50)

So I think that’s where that one comes in. Like if they are used to always being told they’re not doing it right, or if they’re used to their partner being the one who comes and takes care of it right away because it’s a priority to them for whatever the reason, then yeah, they’re not going to be the ones that jump up to do it. Yep. These are things that we’re fighting against the society for. So we’ve got a lot going with this.

JoAnn Crohn (15:16)

Coming up after this break, we have shared the five biggest lies patriarchy has fed us about men. Now it’s time to flip the script and show you what the truth really looks like. Because, spoiler alert, and I think I have argued this repeatedly during this segment, your partner does have working eyeballs and we’ll show you how to navigate this whole thing.

Let’s start taking these lies and figuring out how we can deal with them in the house. Because I know listening right now, you might’ve been nodding ahead with all of these lines, be like, yep, yep, yep. But let’s give you some action steps to take because we don’t ever want you to be stuck in what you think is true and not have any power to change your own situation. Because these myths are about socialization. They’re not about biology. There’s nothing biologically saying men don’t see messes or men can’t pick up after themselves.

Brie Tucker (16:13)

even that women are better at doing the home stuff so they should be in charge of it.

JoAnn Crohn (16:21)

And also let’s just say that these hurt men as much as they hurt women because these lies, they keep us believing and keep women over functioning and allow men to under participate. And so we’re both stuck in this dynamic where men don’t feel like they’re purposeful at home or they don’t have a reason to contribute to the home, which is also like, I mean, if I didn’t feel like I had a reason to contribute, I wouldn’t want to be in that situation.

Brie Tucker (16:50)

like I wasn’t valued, then where’s my motivation to do it? If my partner doesn’t care if I do it and or my partner is gonna keep telling me that I do it badly, I can tell you like in my first marriage, I did not try to do a lot of cleaning up after I got like reprimanded several times. What was the purpose? I wasn’t gonna ever do good enough. So why? You’re gonna yell at me even if I did try.

JoAnn Crohn (17:14)

So let’s break these apart into how we could reframe them. So first of all, the first lie, men just don’t see the household mess. What’s the thing we can do in our homes? What do you do,

Brie Tucker (17:26)

We talk about it. Like this is just like we’ve talked about with our kids. Like when our kids won’t do chores, sit down, have a conversation. Hey, let’s make a list of all the stuff that we have to do in the home that needs to get done. And let’s just see, you know, what we’re doing. And if it feels unfair to you that if you feel like you’re doing more than your partner, then hey I don’t know why, but you know, this feels skewed. Can we talk about it? Let’s just see, because a house, we all live in it. So everybody should have some responsibility to that. I right? Am I right, people? 

JoAnn Crohn (18:05)

I love it. We’ve been having this discussion a lot in our balance coaching about men taking on equal roles in the house. And one of the realizations that comes up over and over again in our members is to start sharing our own feelings about the mess versus saying that it should be clean. It should be clean. Like thou hath come down and said it should be clean. It’s just like one of those things where, especially for me, I don’t agree that it should be totally clean in our house. I don’t think that’s a realistic expectation. But if like my husband came to me and said, Hey, I feel really overstimulated when all this is going on. Can we work on something to help me, you know, feel less overstimulated? I’d be like, yeah, sure. Of course, because I care about him and I love him.

Brie Tucker (18:54)

Now you brought up something right there about like having the right words and being able to express it in a way, in a good way, using the words of like, I’m overstimulated. There’s too much going on. And sometimes we don’t know those things about ourselves and our partners don’t know it about themselves. So again, this conversation is what helps. like, if the mess is what bothers you, then have a conversation. Say it’s like, I feel like I need to have some more support in this. We’re going to share the responsibility and we’re going to agree on it together. Do not come in there guns a blazing and assigning stuff and start saying assigning blame and assigning task because that is the quickest way to kill anybody’s motivation.

JoAnn Crohn (19:40)

Well, I think one thing that you’re talking about too is self-awareness. And when we have self-awareness, when we know about our inner emotions and when we know how to communicate those emotions, all of our relationships become better. That’s something that we work on. That’s phase two in balance is self-awareness making sure that you’re knowing your own thoughts. You know what Bob says to you, which is that evil voice in your head that tells you all these lies. Probably Bob is very well versed in the five lies of the patriarchy. I would say so. ⁓

Brie Tucker (20:12)

That’s what he learned. That’s what he did. Again, mine looks like the Musinex character. He’s like, slimy with a tore up wife beater and a cigar hanging out of his mouth and he’s all like, yeah, 

JoAnn Crohn (20:24)

Yeah, so like it brings up a great point going into these conversations. Like it takes a certain degree of self-awareness on your part to be able to communicate what you’re feeling. And that’s just a skill. That’s something you can learn. Yeah.

Brie Tucker (20:36)

So this next one is a hot button topic for you, the multitasking.

JoAnn Crohn (20:41)

Yeah, I think multitasking is a lie that is sold to women to further enforce this idea of supermom who does it all. Yeah. Because I think multitasking is the surest way to drive yourself crazy. Oh, yeah.

Brie Tucker (20:58)

And I think like you already said, it shouldn’t be a badge of honor. we did like a No Guilt Mom Awards ceremony episode back in May. And one of our things was about like the multitasking mom, you can do all of these things at once. And it is awesome. And it is a really amazing skill being able to transition from task to task. 

JoAnn Crohn (21:04)

No, it’s not a badge of honor!

Brie Tucker (21:27)

It should not be glorified. Nobody should be taking care of everything on their own and transitioning and being the only one in the household that can transition. That’s what we’re saying.

JoAnn Crohn (21:37)

It’s not good because even though you’re able to take care of all of these things, what do you lose? And I could tell you by, by talking with like hundreds of women and coaching, you do lose your patience. You lose your over well being because instead of figuring out, know, what you want in life, what you want to go towards, what goals you have, like especially exercise falls apart when you multitask because you’re focused on like.

that your kids need their homework signed, that they’re looking for like their blue lunchbox, that the dishes need to be done. All of these things are occupying brain space that you don’t have room for anything else.

Brie Tucker (22:14)

Yeah, we’re just going to say for the multitasking divide and conquer people. a conversation, divide and conquer.

JoAnn Crohn (22:19)

Get as much off your plate as possible if you find that you’re multitasking.

Brie Tucker (22:26)

Alright, so flipping the script on the men just aren’t natural nurturers. It doesn’t come naturally to them. BS!

JoAnn Crohn (22:36)

BS. Bull!

Brie Tucker (22:37)

That is so, yeah, no way. Uh-uh. Because, I mean, we didn’t know. We didn’t know how to do bath time or bedtime or meal times or comforting our kids. You may have grown up in a family with like a lot of kids or maybe you babysat a lot, but still you had those experiences to learn those, I don’t want to say skills, but.

JoAnn Crohn (22:59)

It all comes down to the environment you’re raised in because not all women are natural nurturers either. It depends what your experience was growing up, what you were exposed to, the practice that you’ve had. More often than not, when we’re talking to women in our community and a lot of the women that we’re friends with and we find a lot of them have been exposed to the woman taking care of the kids all the time. And so that’s what they know.

If you’re a woman right now who’s like, am not so good on nurturing, you could probably pinpoint back in your childhood why you don’t feel like you’re good at nurturing. You could probably see like, well, I never saw a model of it. Like I didn’t have a parent who was very nurturing towards me. I’m not exactly sure what it looks like. I don’t know how to do this.

Brie Tucker (23:48)

Right. And I’m going to say again, looking at the societal standards and the expectations that we have been passed down from generation to generation. Boys, we don’t expect them to do a lot of nurture. Like let’s look at stereotypical play things, right? Like boys, you’re playing things, you’re playing with your cars. Girls are given kitchens and babies and they’re taught from a very young age to be thoughtful of others. And so if you feel like

Brie Tucker (24:18)

your partner is not nurturing, is not taking an active role in being there in your kids’ lives, then have that conversation. Ask them, what would you like to do more of? And then let them do it. Like I said, the micromanaging, me coming in and telling my husband that he wasn’t cutting those vegetables right was not helpful.

JoAnn Crohn (24:41)

Yeah, and the men aren’t babysitters. They are never babysitting their kids. They are never watching their kids. They are being with their kids. They are being a parent. Like, I think that is one verbal reframe we could do to be like, yeah, my husband’s watching the kids. Well, he’s being a parent. My husband’s doing his parental duty.

Brie Tucker (25:01)

I could say my husband is with the kids. Let’s try to say that. Can we do that, guys? Let’s try that small little switch. Instead of saying my husband’s watching the kids, let’s try saying my husband is with the kids.

JoAnn Crohn (25:14)

Yeah. Yeah. Right. I think it’s a good thing. So let’s talk about the finding things. can never find things. I have not personally experienced this, so I can’t give any insight into it, but Brie, you have.

Brie Tucker (25:28)

I’ve had where they say that they didn’t do something because they didn’t know where it was. And I actually get this a lot with my kids now, but it’s because of us having like a two household family. So my kids, especially my son, I love you to death buddy, but he was always famous for saying, well, I didn’t do it I didn’t know where it went. Really? I I get that you’re only here every other week, but come on. We’ve lived here for how many years now?

five, six years and I’ve never moved the cups. They’ve always been in the same cupboard. So I think that sometimes we might create systems and we just don’t think to tell everybody what we created and where they are. We assume they’re going to see it because in what happens when you assume, ass out of you and me, right?

JoAnn Crohn (26:19)

personal experience of that me and my pantry. I have so organized that pantry. I’ve even labeled shelves. And every time we do grocery unpacking, the kids help us with grocery unpacking. I go and look in the pantry and I’m like, why are the chips on top of the spices? Why are like, what is going on here? Yeah. And I have never actually talked to them about it. Like, see, I have labels here and they go right here.

I think that my kids are going through it with thinking, I’m just going to get this done as fast as I can. And they don’t know that there’s a system. ⁓

Brie Tucker (26:56)

Exactly. Sometimes it’s just about, again, having that extra moment to be inquisitive. What’s really going on? What are they really thinking? And what was I thinking? Right? Yeah. So all right.

JoAnn Crohn (27:07)

I’m gonna tackle that with them actually. Next grocery unload, I’ll be like, so there’s a system here and it’s labeled. So if you have any questions about where anything goes, just ask me, but if you could put them in your system, that’d be great because.

Brie Tucker (27:21)

What do you want to bet they’ll be like, I never noticed it? I bet.

JoAnn Crohn (27:25)

They will. And I think now though, because we have put them in charge of certain household chores and they’re deciding their systems and how it goes. My son has recently, like he’s taken such ownership of the dishwasher and there is, you know, the utensils basket in the dishwasher. So there’s this little grate that goes over the utensils basket, which we have never used before in our lives. But my son has discovered this grate and he’s discovered if he can get people to put in the forks in a certain place, the knives in a certain place, and the spoons, he can unload really quickly. And he is constantly telling me, he’s opening the dishwasher, he’s like, who put the fork here? And I was like, I didn’t even know there was a system. So now I think I have something to compare it to, where he would understand exactly where I’m coming from on this one.

Brie Tucker (28:13)

I absolutely love that. So then that leads us into the last one about the mess tolerance. This is not a conversation about, well, it bothers you more than it bothers me and that’s why I’m not doing it. No, there needs to be more discussion because if it does bother you, if you are, like I just said, like I am, the kitchen is what bugs me. I cannot go to bed with dishes in the sink. I cannot.

And I have had that, like when my husband and I first started living together, I feel like we had that conversation because he was the same as your husband with the whole, like, I’ll get to it later. Of course, we also didn’t have like a set, like who’s taking care of what. He just didn’t understand why every night I was frustrated about the dishes in the sink. And I had to tell him, I’m like, it really bothers me that they’re there. And that’s why I take care of it.

And he’s like, I didn’t know it bothered you. I’ll make sure that I always put mine straight in the dishwasher then, because I thought our household left them in the sink. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It’s like, it’s not that he has less of a tolerance for messiness than I do. It just, bugged me and I had to articulate that to him. And because he loves me, he was willing do it and we figured out a solution.

JoAnn Crohn (29:22)

So I want to go a little bit further into this brief because like as a coach, I’m already thinking of questions I want to ask you to uncover some of those like underlying beliefs and thoughts that you might have that may be affecting why it bothers you. like, so what are you thinking when it bothers you, when you see it in sync?

Brie Tucker (29:42)

I know why it bothers me.

Bugs in the house because I grew up in the Midwest and we had ants and if you left things out during the summer, they would come up from the drain and you would get ants in your kitchen. And it always started with food being left out. And if you leave your dishes in the sink, there’s food there. I 100 % know where it comes from. Now, I live in the desert. Is there an ant problem in Phoenix? No. But it’s so ingrained in me. It’s my thing.

I’ve articulated why it is and I don’t get mad at anybody for leaving the dishes in the sink. Because I know it’s a me thing, but I do make sure that I articulate it because there are some days where I’m tired, I’m exhausted. I don’t want to have to put the dishes away just to go to bed.

JoAnn Crohn (30:30)

No, but this is a great example because you have really high self-awareness and you know the reason it bothers you and it has helped you communicate to your family members why it bothers you, which is like, it’s so much understandable hearing from someone, okay, I grew up in the Midwest and we had ants all over our dishes and I just think about that every time that I see the dishes in the sink. So can we just take care of it versus we shouldn’t have dishes in the sink, why didn’t you do it? Yeah.

Brie Tucker (30:56)

Exactly.

So again, this conversation, if you talk to your partner about it and they say, well, it doesn’t bother me like it bothers you. No, the conversation doesn’t end there. Your feelings are valid. It doesn’t mean that things are going to work out 100 % the way you want them to, but your feelings are valid and they do deserve to be expressed and acknowledged.

JoAnn Crohn (31:07)

They do. And two questions you can ask yourself when you’re trying to figure this out, if you’re getting bothered and you’re like, I know this, is figure out what am I thinking? What am I telling myself when I’m bothered? And what am I feeling when I’m bothered? And that’s going to help you be able to articulate more to your partner what’s going on.

Brie Tucker (31:37)

So I think that the thing we want you guys to get from this part of the podcast is that we need to stop excusing and just offloading while he’s a man, he doesn’t worry about these kinds of things, my partner just doesn’t care. And we need to start being more clear on our expectations. Yeah. Because resentment grows when you don’t have clear expectations.

JoAnn Crohn (32:01)

Absolutely, absolutely. So coming up after this break, we’re going to share some real life strategies to stop falling for the he just can’t excuse. And that’s going to come up right after this.

So let’s talk about three things to leave you with today with this whole lies of the patriarchy and how to dismantle them and how not to let them run your life or your relationship with your partner. So the first one is just to call out the lie that you’re faced with right now without the blame. So for example, if you see a mess and you hear the voice of your mother-in-law being like, well, men just the household mess. You should just let him off the hook.

Brie Tucker (32:40)

I just don’t see it.

Brie Tucker (32:52)

He’s just a man! He can’t make his own plate of food!

JoAnn Crohn (32:57)

Oh my gosh. my gosh. the first step is realizing that that is a lie. So pause, pause, get the voice of JoAnn and Brie in your head. And what does that voice of JoAnn and Brie say Brie?

Brie Tucker (33:12)

It says it’s not that he can’t, he’s just never been expected to. There’s never been a conversation about it in the past.

JoAnn Crohn (33:21)

Case in point if your mother-in-law’s saying it, I bet you know why.

Brie Tucker (33:25)

my god, yes, yes. It’s like, mm, yeah, well, when he’s not expected to make any food for himself, when he’s around, you know, his mom and or partner, then yeah, he’s never gonna do it. So you need to say like, no, you’re an adult, you can do that yourself. I mean, you can say it a nicer way.

JoAnn Crohn (33:43)

And I wouldn’t recommend this is what I would not recommend doing. Well, your mother never made you do these things. It’s that’s not going to go up very well. ⁓ it make it more about the partnership, not a personal attack. Be like, hey, I know you see it too. Let’s figure out how to handle it together because it’s really bothering me. And I’d like to find a solution.

Brie Tucker (34:05)

Yeah. So our tip number two, I feel like we have been articulating, so we’re going to try to make it clear and say it out loud, right? Shall we? We’re going to share the load out loud. I mean, partnership, it’s not about guessing what your partner is thinking. It’s not about guessing what your partner is going to do. It’s about talking about it, naming it, and then figuring out who’s going to own it.

JoAnn Crohn (34:31)

Exactly.

It can’t leave silently in your head all of the things that are on your to-do list. That is the fast track to resentment too, because you’ll have all these things you’re thinking about. You’ll think that your partner sees all these things and just you think that they’re letting you handle it and you’ll feel murderous.

Brie Tucker (34:47)

They just don’t care.

yes, yes, the murderous rage, huh. Yeah, that can certainly happen, for sure.

JoAnn Crohn (34:56)

So something that I did with my husband is when we first started these discussions, and it was like 2019, we’ve been working on this since. We have weekly dates, and on our weekly dates, we talk about things. And this is when I bring up things that are bothering me or that I’m stressed out about. So it’s not necessarily saying things that he did that bothered me. It’s more of general frustrations and things I have on my plate.

such as, my gosh, there are so many forms coming in right now for the kids in school. Like, how can we split this up? That’s where.

Brie Tucker (35:30)

Right. Okay. And I love that you articulated that because I think again, podcast land, we want to hear from you guys on this. I think a lot of us carry stuff like that in our head. A lot of women carry that in their head. They think that our partner either a won’t care or B we think it’s our job because again, ⁓ I’m the mom. So I’m in charge of my kids and my family and my house and their school and wait a minute, like you said, just have a conversation. And furthermore, can I also say, love that you guys do those dates out of your house, because I think there’s nothing that can make you more pissed off than talking to your partner about something. And then as you look around, you just see everything that irritates you that they’re not seeing or doing. Having the conversation in a neutral zone where nobody can point to something and be like, well, you, well, you. I think that getting yourself out of the situation, out of the house,

Brie Tucker (36:25)

is helpful. It really is. It puts you guys at a more neutral place. again, having those regular conversations about this is the stuff that needs to get done this week. What can you do? What can I do? I’ve had to work a lot on asking for help from my husband. And when I say asking for help, I’m giving that the wrong word, but I mean admitting that I can’t do it all.

JoAnn Crohn (36:45)

Yeah, I think that’s a better reframe of it.

Brie Tucker (36:47)

Yeah, admitting I can’t do it all and or admitting that I don’t want to do it all. Yeah, that has been hard, but I’m working on it.

JoAnn Crohn (36:54)

The thing that I remind myself of when I have these conversations is it’s not me against my husband, it’s us against the work. So we’re a team, we’re trying to get the work done together. And that’s what guides the conversation.

Brie Tucker (37:07)

I love that. It’s not me against you, it’s us against the problem.

JoAnn Crohn (37:10)

It’s us against the work. And then the final thing is to challenge the excuse with evidence. Now we’re getting into the whole weaponized incompetence conversation, which if you’re not familiar with this, it is one of those things like, well, I’m just not good at unloading the dishwasher, so I can’t do it. And then it all falls on you.

Brie Tucker (37:32)

Right? You know, I just can’t cook like you can. So I really need you to take care of cooking every day for the rest of your life.

JoAnn Crohn (37:39)

Yeah, the kids just don’t listen to me like they listen to you. ⁓ my god, yes! All of these things which they sound like compliments, but they’re not.

Brie Tucker (37:48)

I didn’t even know where the bath toys are and I don’t even know how to run the dishwasher or the washing machine. Yeah, you do. So yeah, if he can do other things randomly, quickly, like he can figure out how to like find the bath toys and to, you know, read the instructions on the dishwasher on the washing machine.

JoAnn Crohn (38:08)

Well, and a lot of things like explaining it, it’s good if you can compare it to something else. Like this tip actually comes from our friend, Zach Watson, who is a mental load coach for dads. And he says to compare it to work. So when you’re talking to men about the mental load, all men have experienced a point where they’re at work and they have all of these things that they have to figure out and do by themselves. And no one else seems to notice these things, only they do. I mean, that’s the mental load in action.

that mental tally of everything you have to do at work. But we as women are just taking on everything we have to do at work, also taking it on at home. And so that’s where we get too stressed out and feeling crazed. So comparing it to that and saying like, we have the same going on at home and I need to split it up because it’s making me insane.

Brie Tucker (38:59)

I have to say I hadn’t thought of that before and that’s brilliant. I love that. And if you guys want to learn more about Zach, I have a link in the show notes about his Instagram as well. But yeah, I hadn’t thought about that. And that’s a really great thing because that’s what I would do with my kids, right? I would find something to relate it to that means something to them that they can have a concrete example of. So I love bringing that back to work. I think that’s a great thing.

JoAnn Crohn (39:26)

And the weaponized incompetence too. That happens at work as well. Like say you have that one employee who says that they’re not good at running meetings and so all the meetings have to fall to you. I mean, how do you feel towards that one employee? Murderous. 

Brie Tucker (39:41)

pretty resentful. Yeah.

I think that there’s an important thing to remember. We all have things that we are good at. We all do. And we have things that we’re not so great at, but we’re never going to get better at it if we’re not given the opportunity to work at it. So to have that in a funny stance, I’m going to say if your husband can figure out his fantasy football lineup and switch it out when players get injured. He can totally handle washing the clothes. He can handle bedtime. He can do it.

JoAnn Crohn (40:14)

You can handle all the things, all the things.

Brie Tucker (40:16)

Again, like we’ve said, it’s not about shaming at all. There is no finger pointing in this situation. It’s about reminding everybody we are all capable human beings. It’s us against the problem. We can figure this out.

JoAnn Crohn (40:30)

Exactly. Patriarchy has fed us the lies to keep moms doing more and dads doing less in the home. And it’s also fed us the lies too about the workplace as well and keeps women held back there. So it’s best just to acknowledge these lies and know how to counter them when they occur because believing them, hurts both women and men.

Brie Tucker (40:52)

Yeah, we definitely have to realize that again, like to quote one of my favorite sounds on TikTok. ⁓

Baby, you’re just a baby. Yeah, no.

Brie Tucker (41:01)

Men are not babies. They’re not helpless. Women are not babies or helpless either. We chose to be in a partnership with this person because of whatever. Hopefully there is love. And if we love people, sometimes we tend to over care for them. And then that puts us in a place, like you said, resentment. Have the conversation. I feel like the patriarchy has lowered the bar.

And it’s time for us to push it up a little bit. It’s not a limbo game people. It’s not.

JoAnn Crohn (41:36)

If we want to feel less overwhelmed, we need an equal partner making it happen. If we do have a partner, we don’t need someone else to take care of. So to leave you with that, and also if you want some help and you really want to get into self-awareness more and know how to have these conversations and communicate, come join us in our Balance Program. We only have it open at certain times during the year, but you can go get on the wait list at balanceformoms.com forward slash go. And with that, the best mom is a happy mom.

Take care of you and we’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker (42:09)

Thanks for stopping by.

JoAnn Crohn (42:12)

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