Podcast Episode 376: Why Doing Less Isn’t Lazy Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

Courtney Carver (00:01)

And after months and months of tests and visits to neurologists, I ironically was diagnosed with MS myself.

JoAnn Crohn (00:11)

When you were training for an event for MS.

Courtney Carver (00:14)

That’s right, I was doing this ride really for him and then it turns out that I had the very same condition.

JoAnn Crohn (00:25)

Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I’m your host, JoAnn Crone, joined here by the delightful Brie Tucker. We are talking all about being gentle with ourselves today, which is coming at such a good time because the other night I had a really, really hard time being gentle with myself when all this chaos was happening. And I decided to cancel a few things the next morning so I can get sleep.

Brie Tucker (00:33)

Hello everybody, how are you?

JoAnn Crohn (00:51)

I had a hard time doing it. I thought, Brie, I was being lazy. I thought I was being selfish and entitled because there are other people who could push through it. Why wasn’t I pushing through it? So I’m super excited to have this conversation today.

Brie Tucker (01:05)

Yeah, I’m kind of giggling to myself because that’s what we have given me as the unofficial role to be like, JoAnn, just text me and I will tell you, you deserve to break. You deserve to have a nap. And I can say that for anybody else. I’m just not going to do that for myself, but that’s okay. We all work on it. It’s a work in progress.

JoAnn Crohn (01:24)

We’re not good at doing it for ourselves. We’re gonna tackle it today. If you feel like doing less is lazy, we’re gonna counter all that today because we have with us Courtney Carver. She’s the founder of bemorewithless.com and the author of Soulful Simplicity and just released her third book, Gentle. Rest more, stress less and live the life you actually want. She helps people simplify their lives so they have space, time and energy.

for what really matters to them and is the proud mom to a daughter. So with that, let’s get on with the show.

You want mom life to be easier. That’s our goal too. Our mission is to raise more self-sufficient and independent kids and we’re going to have fun doing it. We’re going to help you delegate and step. Each episode we’ll tackle strategies for positive discipline, making our kids more responsible and making our lives better in the process. Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast.

Courtney, welcome to the podcast. You could not come on at a better time with all this stress in our lives right now. I’m so excited to get into it and especially hear your story because you are known for talking about simplicity and there was a very pivotal life event for you that had you going in this direction. Tell us about that.

Courtney Carver (02:59)

Yeah, I too was living a very stressful life. And I have to say, no matter when I am talking to people about this book, they say this couldn’t have come at a better time because there’s so much stress in my life. It’s not a time sensitive thing. It seems like we’re all dealing with a lot all the time. And for me, I thought that was how to be a proper adult by being really stressed out, over committing myself.

Never saying no to anything, going above and beyond, jumping through all the hoops, climbing all the ladders and on and on and on. And in 2006, my body said, I don’t think we’re going to do this anymore. And here’s why I was training for an event in Salt Lake City where I live called the MS 150. It’s a cycling event to raise money for multiple sclerosis research.

And I got really sick because I was of course doing this on top of everything else I was doing, which was far too much. And I had unbelievable vertigo, like hold onto the walls vertigo. my God, I hate that. It’s terrible. exhaustion, like just extreme fatigue. I had tingling in my face and numbness in my hands or vice versa. It mixes and matches. And after months and months of

tests and visits to neurologists, I ironically was diagnosed with MS myself. That’s right, because my boss at the time had MS. And so I was doing this ride really for him. And then it turns out that I had the very same condition.

JoAnn Crohn (04:33)

You were training for an event for MS?

Brie Tucker (04:47)

That’s a lifetime movie right there. Intro to a lifetime movie, I think.

Courtney Carver (04:52)

personally. Well, it was definitely dramatic for me. just couldn’t believe that was happening. And I didn’t know what to do with that because I only had one vision of MS, which is what my boss had been experiencing. I had only known him while he was in a wheelchair and experiencing lots and lots of rapid progressive MS. And little did I know there were a lot of other versions. In fact,

frustrating for a lot of people, MS shows up so differently for each individual. after like that initial shock and fear wore off, I started doing a lot of research about like, do people live well with MS? Because I had experienced all of these symptoms for years, but never all at once. And the thing that my research kept coming back to was that stress impacted

MS and other autoimmune and chronic conditions in a negative way. So while I certainly don’t think that my lifestyle caused me to have MS, I think it exacerbated the symptoms and potentially progression. And so I decided in that moment to, at first I was like, that’s it, I’m just going to eliminate stress altogether and like continue my.

JoAnn Crohn (06:10)

Did you get stressed if you got stressed?

Courtney Carver (06:13)

I was like, I’m going to be the best stress reducer

Brie Tucker (06:19)

to care about anything!

JoAnn Crohn (06:21)

Except not being stressed, which I’m stressed about. Yeah, no, I’ve been down the same road, Courtney. That’s why I bring it up because I have a chronic condition as well. have ulcerative colitis and autoimmune disease. Stress does exacerbate my symptoms too. And you have to wonder just like how you wondered with yourself. I was in a period of really high stress when I was first diagnosed. And you do see that correlation between those two things.

between the stress and then your symptoms. But you talk about rest as a necessity, not a luxury. And like me, like so many other women, we struggle to believe that it’s necessary. Why do you think so many women push against this idea of rest?

Courtney Carver (07:07)

Well, I think we struggle to believe that we deserve it because we feel like we always have to earn our rest. When I finish everything on my to-do list, I will chill out for a minute or if I was good enough or if I worked hard enough, then I can take a break. But what’s happening is we’re measuring ourselves by how much we get done. And so it’s never enough. We’re never done.

Brie Tucker (07:11)

Yeah.

Courtney Carver (07:36)

We have to keep living up to this version of ourselves that really is impossible to maintain and there’s never room for rest. So yes, we don’t rest because we’re doing too much, but why are we doing so much?

JoAnn Crohn (07:51)

Why are we doing so much? It’s really interesting because I’m told to rest a lot by people in my life, Brie and my husband as well. But then I noticed my husband’s case. He stays up until like one or two in the morning getting stuff done for work. Then he goes to sleep for four hours and he wakes up again. And on the weekends, he’s just done for. He will just sit and like listen to albums and all of those things.

And I look at that and I’m like, my gosh, well, he gets to rest, but I’m not working as hard as he is. So why should I rest like he rests when he’s working so hard? So I think like having those comparisons in our lives and these unrealistic work standards also may contribute to that. What do you think about that?

Courtney Carver (08:38)

think it all comes back to measuring our worth by what we get done. And not that we need to solve your husband’s problems today,

JoAnn Crohn (08:47)

I’ve been working on it.

Courtney Carver (08:50)

The book, Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker. I’ve written that up. ⁓

JoAnn Crohn (08:55)

Do you know my latest thing is I’m afraid he is going to have dementia or Alzheimer’s based on some science in that book because you need sleep to like clear out the, don’t know what it is. I’m gonna sound like completely uninformed on this, but basically our brains need sleep for many different reasons. And they’re connecting dementia and Alzheimer’s to not enough sleep, lack of sleep.

Courtney Carver (09:18)

It’s a lot. And I don’t know if can really make up for it in a weekend. And I don’t believe we can make up for a year of sleep deprivation by going on vacation for a week.

Brie Tucker (09:28)

Right. I completely agree with you.

JoAnn Crohn (09:31)

I think, yeah, I completely agree with it too. Well, in your book, Gentle, you break the journey into three parts. You break it into rest, less, and rise. And right after this, we are going to get into each of those three parts.

So Courtney, in your book, you break the journey into three parts, rest, less, and rise. So you talked about being diagnosed with MS, but what was your personal turning point in realizing that you needed all three of those parts?

Courtney Carver (10:02)

It’s really been kind of my healing journey that has made me realize that. So I resisted rest for my whole life. Like many people, even as a very young child, I didn’t want to take naps all through adulthood. was just, I don’t have time for that. I’m too busy. I can’t do that right now. I’ll sleep when I’m dead. Whatever the things that we say, work hard, play hard.

JoAnn Crohn (10:29)

Play hard.

Rise and Grind.

Courtney Carver (10:34)

Nose to the grindstone, buckle down.

JoAnn Crohn (10:37)

All of those are imprinted in our minds.

Courtney Carver (10:39)

They certainly are. And I ate those words for breakfast. And so for me, once I had that MS diagnosis and started doing things very slowly to feel better and notice that it was working, I got really curious about what else might be helpful. And so I didn’t set out to simplify my life. I set out to reduce stress. But as I looked back, I noticed that

It really was just simplicity in action that was reducing all the stress in my life. And rest for me had to come first because I just know how crucial it is for our bodies, our brains, our peace of mind. And I know this for a fact because if I wake up after five hours of sleep, I’m terrible to be around. I don’t even want to be around myself. I can’t think.

my way through any solutions. don’t have any creativity. I’m just out of gas. But if I have a great night of sleep, give me seven or eight hours and I’m good to go. You can notice right away. ⁓

JoAnn Crohn (11:49)

Yeah, I’m the same way. Like my sleep is so important to me. What I mentioned a little bit in the intro was that we had gotten back late from a concert and we came home to just find like a mess just left by my dog. And I was up until like 1, 1.30 in the morning with my daughter cleaning up after, I don’t know if you know what happy tail is, but not many people do what I say happy tail. I have a Staffordshire Terrier.

And it’s very similar to a pit bull and you know, those long tails on pit bulls, if they’re not docked. So what happens with those long tails when they’re very happy, the tail goes back and forth, back and forth for producing these little cuts on the tail. And if you think about the cut and the tail wagging back and forth, it’s like a murder splatter painting in Courtney is what we had to clean up after the happy tail. ⁓ I had planned to wake up early to run a session for our balance community that I run every morning at 6 a.m. and ⁓

I canceled it because I’m like, you know what? I’m not going to be good the rest of the day because I need the sleep.

Brie Tucker (12:50)

Yeah, if you’re lucky, that would have been five hours.

JoAnn Crohn (12:53)

Yeah, if I’m lucky, it would have been only five hours, but I felt so guilty doing it, Courtney. I felt like I was failing people. I felt like I was acting entitled because I wouldn’t just do it tired, even though that I knew that that was the best thing for me. So I totally identify with the whole, need sleep.

Courtney Carver (13:15)

It kind of reminds me of when I used to work in an office and people would come to work, myself included, so sick, like just downing the day quill and showing up sick. What? Then we’re just like making everybody else sick. We’re delaying our own recovery. It’s wild. And it’s that whole notion of like, have to prove myself. I am not weak. I am strong, even when I’m sick.

JoAnn Crohn (13:28)

Did that, yes.

Courtney Carver (13:44)

And I had a little bit of that happening in my early MS days, you know, especially during the diagnosis where I would go sit in an MRI, just terrified about what they might find, crying afterwards, feeling sick, and then go to work and just pretend that everything was fine. I didn’t need to do that. So now like when you have to cancel something and you feel that guilt, I think it’s really great to notice it.

and sort of reassess. I mean, I think a lot of our guilt feelings are more the feeling of discomfort versus actual guilt because like, are you really doing something bad or wrong? And I understand when you say you think you’re letting people down, but maybe what you’re doing is demonstrating your entire mission. You’re walking the walk here and it’s giving us all permission to say, okay, like I can’t do that thing today, I’m exhausted or I don’t want to do this other thing so I’m going to say no in advance.

Brie Tucker (14:50)

and your self-worth isn’t tied to that.

Courtney Carver (14:53)

Right, you’re still as amazing as you were when you stuck with your appointment. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (15:01)

It’s funny bringing that up Courtney, because this interview is itself a lesson and Bri and I take making the choice to rest instead of going forward because we had to reschedule with you because both of us were sick at the initial interview time. And I love that reframing you did of actually walking the walk, because I also think about it as being a mom and having my kids see what I do.

Do I want my kids to see me completely sick and just going through and faking it anyways? Or do I want them seeing somebody who takes care of themselves, somebody who values yourself enough and doesn’t go into this people pleasing mentality of trying to make everyone else happy over her own health?

Brie Tucker (15:47)

Okay, hold on, I have to throw in this little tidbit too. How long did it also take many of us as adults to figure out what our body actually needs when it gets sick? It takes years for us to figure out what we need. I need rest. I need fluids. I need this combination of this and that and the other. And why did we all search through that? I feel like because we saw that. Like that was what we saw growing up was if we grew up in the eighties and nineties, that was the push.

You work, work, work, work, work, no matter what.

JoAnn Crohn (16:20)

Perfect Attendance Awards.

Brie Tucker (16:22)

because again, strength and grittiness is what was prized rather than self-well-being because it was like being tight, being the strongest no matter what against all obstacles. And man, that is just impossible.

JoAnn Crohn (16:40)

It ruined us and we’re all healing from it.

Courtney Carver (16:43)

Well, yeah. So rest came first and then the second section is called less. And this is really my main wheelhouse is simplifying your life, living with less stuff, living with less busyness, living with less stress. And so that less section was so important. I think we have to, once we rest, which I think we do first and very consistently, then we clear the decks instead of just piling more and more and more on our plates, we make space for what we really want in our lives.

JoAnn Crohn (17:21)

And I think that’s a hard thing for especially moms to do to actually figure out what we do want more of in our lives. Because we’re so concerned about the needs of everybody else that it can be hard to distinguish, hey, do I really want this? Will this really be something that fulfills me and makes me happy? Or is this just going to be quote unquote, a waste of time that I could have spent doing other things?

that benefit my family or that I will regret if I haven’t done it later on. You see, you’re getting an insight into my mind here, Courtney.

Brie Tucker (17:53)

And it’s like the hoarders mind. I’m like, well, what can I take away? Because everything has value. Everything has worth. And what makes this task less important than that task than that task?

Courtney Carver (18:05)

Well, so that’s why the rest component is so important because otherwise you’re working from this sort of frenzied place where, of course, it’s harder to make clear decisions. And you have to start with the easy stuff, like your 42 coffee mugs, even though you only use your favorite one every day. I’m not calling anybody out. I don’t know what your cabinets look like.

Brie Tucker (18:26)

We just did that this weekend Courtney. I’ve got to say you’re seeing me. You are seeing me. And I had to make my husband help because I didn’t want to let go of the coffee mug.

JoAnn Crohn (18:31)

Bye! ⁓

Courtney Carver (18:37)

But maybe that’s where you’re starting. So you’re starting with the things that are easy, with the duplicates. And then you’re working your way up to the more complex things like your obligations, expectations, relationships, projects, things like that. But every time you’re making space in one area of your life, you’re making a little space inside to make that decision on the next thing a little bit easier. It’s not an overnight process. There’s nothing fast or furious about

this gentle work. It is gentle for a reason, and that is to remove the stress, remove the shame and the blame and the pressure to be the best declutterer or the best stress reducer. Who cares? Take your time. Taking this on in a stressful way, it just makes no sense because then you’re not doing the thing that is going to make the real difference in your life. You’re just going to create space temporarily and then fill it back up because you’re stressed.

JoAnn Crohn (19:39)

So that makes me think of a lot of the moms we work with here at No Guilt Mom who are really stuck in this default parent mode where they are doing everything in their household for their families. And it’s also this mindset about how they’re afraid to do less because they’re afraid everything will fall apart around them. And so I want to hear your advice to them right after this.

So Courtney, right before our break, we talked about the moms out there who are the default parent, who are doing everything in their homes and are scared to let one thing drop and do less. What would you say to them?

Courtney Carver (20:18)

I would say it’s okay if things drop for starters. They’re going to as you practice this and that’s how you’re going to know what is most important. I also think if you’re in a partnership in any way that you read the book, Fair Play by, I think it’s her name’s Eve Rotsky.

So your listeners know like the expectation is that you’re going to carry not only all the daily logistics, but you’re going to manage the emotional labor of the entire family all the time. And it’s not sustainable for your health. It’s not sustainable for your relationships. It’s not going to work for very long. And for any of us who have been in a relationship

like that where you are doing it all, understand a lot of resentment builds and you’re exhausted. So I think it is important to shift that expectation instead of looking for more productivity hacks. You don’t need to figure out how to do more or how to be more efficient. That’s not your job. And frankly, it’s not within your actual control or capacity.

JoAnn Crohn (21:36)

I think letting go, it’s the hardest thing to do and it’s the answer because a lot of us think that other people’s homes look very, very different than they actually are. I’ve let a lot of stuff go in my home and I am on board with you in the simplicity thing. We try to have as little stuff, stuff as possible.

but you’re gonna see the dishes piled up in my sink. You’re gonna see my son’s room is an absolute mess. Like I can’t even walk in there and it’s just one of those things I have to just close the door and walk away because that is something I have let go of. There’s blood splatters on our walls.

Brie Tucker (22:15)

I swear to God, it’s not an American psycho kind of like crime scene. Not that.

JoAnn Crohn (22:21)

But it is hard to let go. It’s hard to let go of the idea of perfection or how it has to be and actually let things be. Your third part of your book, Rise. Tell us about that.

Courtney Carver (22:33)

Yeah, it was really important for me to include this because I think people get scared when you recommend that they are gentler with themselves or that they rest or that they do less because then it’s like, but how do I achieve my goals? How do I support what I care about in the world? And I think these things all coexist, but you can’t rise from a place of stress and exhaustion.

You can rise from a place of being well rested, well taken care of, very connected to yourself and having less to deal with overall. So I wanted to include that like, yes, have your goals, build your company, start your nonprofit, start a podcast, do the things that you really want to do, but start from a place of taking care of you.

JoAnn Crohn (23:26)

And that’s a hard message to hear. like if you’re listening right now and you hear that message and you’re like, easy for them to say, let’s dig into it just a little bit more because Courtney, you wrote that hustle culture really made you sick. So like, how do you define your success now versus how you defined it when you were hustling?

Courtney Carver (23:47)

I think now I’m so much more intentional about my work and I’m still growing and trying new things. I mean, I just wrote and published a new book that takes a lot of time, but I’m not doing it on top of multiple launches and trying to hit a certain number of subscribers on Instagram or my email list. When I’m working on one thing, the other things have to slide. They’re not all going to be happening.

But at the same time. I don’t think we can be in a creative phase and a growth phase at the same time being completely immersed in either one, which is sometimes really what it takes. So I’m just willing to let a lot of stuff go. mean, I think you’re right. Letting go is really the key to a lot of this stuff. And I’ve also kind of constantly been redefining what enough means for me in any particular situation because with the way that business is now, I mean, the messages that you’re getting online, you you can make $10,000 in a day or $500,000 a month. All you have to do is like, you see on Instagram for 24 hours and post reels and lose yourself to whatever. I really don’t think.

It’s that sustainable for people. feels like this big MLM out there in this messaging. Yeah, it works for some people. It actually is.

Brie Tucker (25:21)

Yeah, because like that life never stops. JoAnn, just this morning you were doing your Joa Joa and you were talking about how you were feeling sick and it’s hard when you’re running your own business and it’s just you and maybe if you’re lucky one other person, you know, your best friend. So then when you’re like, I need to rest, I need to take a break. And I think a lot of women feel like this because of so much that we’re doing. They think everything’s going to fall apart because there’s nobody else to pick up.

my duties, right?

JoAnn Crohn (25:51)

Yeah, yeah, I was actually going to ask this question along those same veins because Courtney, I’m wondering like what you do in terms of letting other people take over and delegate. Cause I know that for many of our listeners out there that the control is real. You want to have things done a certain way at a certain time. And because I’ve known like in my own life, the more I tried to hold onto myself, the more everything fell apart if I like got a little headache or I was out or anything like that. So I’m wondering Courtney, how do you structure your life so that things won’t fall completely apart? Like the important things will get taken care of if you happen to not be available for like a few days or.

Courtney Carver (26:39)

Well, for starters, I have fewer important things to take care of.

Brie Tucker (26:43)

Because you went through the pieces.

Courtney Carver (26:46)

Well, just because I know what it’s like when you’re trying to balance everything or prioritize everything, you’re prioritizing nothing. Not everything can matter at the same time. And I’m lucky enough to work with people I trust and to have different teams for different projects. And I have to let them do what they do best. And I do what I do best. And even the things I do best, I don’t always do that well. I I write a lot and I feel like I’m a really good writer. I’m not a great editor. And so every time I post something, I’ll get an email about a typo and I just have become okay with that. I’m like, wow, someone’s really paying attention. I appreciate that. ⁓

JoAnn Crohn (27:31)

Yeah. Oh yeah. I’m the same. Like, I’m like, don’t even care about typos anymore. Cause like, when you go through the writing process and for everyone who, if you’re listening, have you ever thought of writing a book, but you’re like, oh my gosh, I have the worst grammar. I’m the worst punctuation. It doesn’t matter. That stuff’s fixed for you. Like it’s really big.

Courtney Carver (27:50)

the good editors, you’re good to go. And that’s important to know so that you can release that pressure around the things that, I mean, my gosh, if I tried to know where every comma went in this book that I wrote, I’d still be writing it. Like it just never would have worked out. So I just had to be okay kind of winging it a bit on that part so that I could get the parts that I thought were really important down. And that’s how, and then I also have to be willing to like, okay, this is not going to be

Normally, January would be a time where I would do a big launch for my membership. This past year, I was releasing this book in February. There’s no way I could have done it, but I would have felt terrible. My team would have hated me. It wouldn’t have been a great time. 20 years ago, I would have buckled through that, pushed through it, made it happen at all costs. Now, my question to myself is at what cost? Yeah, you’re not going to make as much this month.

well, moving on.

JoAnn Crohn (28:52)

Yeah, if a woman listening right now, she wants to live more gently, but she just feels really overwhelmed. What’s one small step that you recommend her taking?

Courtney Carver (29:03)

I think the smallest step that we can take is that every day we need to be asking ourselves this question. What is the gentlest thing I can do for myself in this moment? You’re asking that when you are feeling overwhelmed, when you’re at your computer and you feel your jaw clenched, when you notice that you have to pee but you are telling yourself, as soon as I finish this, I will. ⁓

Brie Tucker (29:33)

You’re totally seeing me! my gosh! You have a camera in my house!

Courtney Carver (29:40)

Yeah, I’m so thirsty. I’ll go get a drink of water once I hit this whatever. It’s like, no, go get yourself a drink of water right now. Go pee. Do what you have to do, please, to take care of yourself. And some days you’re going to say, I need to put my face in the sunshine or I need to take a walk or I need to call this person I haven’t talked to in a long time. Know what you want and then give yourself permission to do it. It’s usually the tiniest things.

But what happens during this process while you’re giving yourself these tiny things every day is you’re learning how to listen to yourself and you’re learning how to trust yourself. those things will eventually manage overwhelm in a bigger way. But honestly, the secret to managing overwhelm is owning less, doing less and caring less. And I know that’s not the tiny answer, but that is the answer. Own less, do less, care less.

JoAnn Crohn (30:36)

I love that Courtney, like you just had like a mic drop moment for me when you just said, honor your little needs because that is how you’re learning how to trust yourself. I feel like that is a struggle right now for so many women learning how to trust exactly what they need and honoring it. So I love that.

Courtney Carver (30:54)

And let me just say, if I can, it’s not your fault or their fault that they’re not honoring it. They’re not honoring it because they’re not hearing it because they’re so freaking busy listening to everything else that they can’t hear those inside voices that are like, help me.

JoAnn Crohn (31:11)

Yeah. No, it’s absolutely true. Well, every interview, Courtney, we end with a high note and we want to know what’s exciting that’s coming up for you right now in your life.

Courtney Carver (31:24)

So this is an exciting work thing for me. I have had sub stack envy for years and I don’t know why I just have, I just feel like there’s a place for me there. And so in my book, there’s a chapter called Little Saturday and it’s all about creating ritual that helps you start enjoying your life instead of waiting for the weekend and saving rest and pleasure for later.

And so I am starting a sub stack called Little Saturday that will, I can’t even tell you all about it yet. I’m just going to tell you, it’s going to be this quiet corner of the internet that people can really learn how to not only simplify their lives, but to trust themselves and to enjoy themselves. So that is coming up in the very near future and I’m really excited about it.

JoAnn Crohn (32:16)

That is exciting. That is exciting. Well, Courtney, I highly recommend your book to everybody who feels overwhelmed, who feels like they are constantly busy. I know a friend actually we’re meeting for happy hour today that I really want to recommend your book to. so, Courtney, this has been a delight and thank you so much for joining us and we’ll talk to you later.

Courtney Carver (32:38)

My pleasure.

Brie Tucker (32:42)

Okay, I have to say something. I really thought that I had been getting very good at recognizing when I need a break and resting and all that. Dare I say, I was getting a little arrogant that like, hey, I’ve got this like resting shizmit down. And then Courtney pointed out all the crap I’m doing that’s not letting myself rest. I 100 % do the thing where I’m doing the potty dance in my seat trying to finish a project.

or I’ll be like out of water and I’ll be like, okay, well, as soon as I finish this, I’ll go upstairs and I can feel the pains in my stomach already starting because I’m like that dehydrated, but I’ll still do it to myself. And yet I’m sitting here going like, but I’m so good at being gentle with myself.

JoAnn Crohn (33:24)

You’re still doing like all of those things.

Brie Tucker (33:27)

Yeah, apparently not. It’s a work in progress like she said.

JoAnn Crohn (33:31)

There was a post that I saw on Instagram that I wanted to bring up because I think that so many women, and you guys could hear it going if you heard my music go right there. But I think that so many women can really relate to this one. It is a video first and I’ll show it to Brie right here. It’s a video of this man getting out of his cold plunge. And it says six things people think are normal but are actually.

red flags of childhood trauma. And you’re gonna see where I’m going with this in a little bit. Ready? Okay. So the things are, over apologizing for everything. What? So you say sorry, even when it’s not your fault, feeling guilty for resting or doing nothing, struggling to accept compliments or love, constantly expecting the worst. You’re hiding, you’re slinking away, but get ready for it. Be hyper independent.

So like you avoid asking for help or trusting others and feeling responsible for everyone else’s emotions. And I read that and I’m like, childhood trauma or being a woman.

Brie Tucker (34:41)

100 % the case. It is

JoAnn Crohn (34:43)

Being a woman! ⁓

Brie Tucker (34:47)

Those are all the expectations of women.

JoAnn Crohn (34:50)

Yeah, commented that and I was like looking at other comments and like I’m like, ⁓ yep being a girl. This is being a girl

Brie Tucker (34:59)

my gosh.

JoAnn Crohn (35:00)

We have this ingrained in us. We feel guilty for resting. We’re constantly trying to do all the things, constantly trying to prove our worth and how we are worthy.

Brie Tucker (35:10)

So I was going to say proving that we are worth as much as our male counterpart.

JoAnn Crohn (35:14)

Yes, when honestly, we can definitely handle more than our male counterparts. Our male counterparts can like focus. I’m sorry, male counterparts. Not all of you are this way. Some of you are very enlightened individuals. I would say my husband’s one of them and your husband’s one of them. But a lot of men, especially those giving advice on the internet, have these like very constrained, narrow points of view where they’re able to just focus on this one thing for so long.

And women, we are so scattered because our partners in our lives are focusing on one thing, leaving all the rest to do for the family. Yeah. And it’s unfair and it shouldn’t be that way. And I just want to say that to you right now because it is unfair if you are being expected to do everything else when your partner is allowed to focus on one thing.

Brie Tucker (35:51)

For us.

Yeah, and a lot of times people don’t even know that situation is happening. So we 100 % recommend getting Courtney’s book, gentle, rest more, stress less and live the life you actually want. have a link here in the show notes. You totally need to get this. It is a huge eye opener. Even if you already listening to this and you’re like, yeah, I know. I know. I know.

JoAnn Crohn (36:27)

Read it. Read it.

Brie Tucker (36:29)

Read it because it’s one of those messages that I think that we just need to keep hearing and hearing and hearing. And every time we hear it, if we make at least an inch of progress in the direction of rest and focus and better self care for ourselves, that’s a win.

JoAnn Crohn (36:49)

That’s a win. It is a win. So until next time, remember the best mom is a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker (36:57)

Thanks for stopping by.