Podcast Episode 388: From Breakdown to Breakthrough: the Secret to Healing from Disappointment Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

JoAnn Crohn (00:04)

Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I’m your host JoAnn Crone here with the brilliant Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker (00:11)

Hello, hello everybody, how are you?

JoAnn Crohn (00:12)

We are so excited to get into today’s episode. This podcast is for moms who feel overwhelmed, underappreciated, and they’re stuck managing everything day to day for their families. We want to tell you that you’re not alone. And in this podcast episode, we promise to bring you strategies that are going to help you reclaim your time, your energy, and your joy. In this episode, we are focusing on how to come back after heavy disappointment.

It’s something that we talk a lot about, Brie.

Brie Tucker (00:44)

Yeah, there’s one thing Brie knows about. It’s disappointment. No, disappointment. I’m disappointed that my coffee is not making me as bright-eyed and bushy-tailed as it normally does today. I’m disappointed that my puppy ate a pillow 20 minutes ago.

JoAnn Crohn (00:48)

It’s a heart!

Well, and that’s a good distinction too, because I think we all have really frequent daily disappointments. But it’s like when the big stuff comes in that totally knocks you on the ground. That is what we’re talking about today, the heavy stuff. And we’re doing that with Jessica Turner. Jessica is the author of a new book, I thought it would be better than this, and a lifestyle influencer. She helps busy moms with decisions by sharing the best products and lifestyle hacks.

She’s a divorced mom to three kids ages 17, 14, and 10. And we cannot wait to talk with her and get all of her tips for surviving this heavy disappointment that we might find in our lives. So with that, let’s get on with the show.

You want mom life to be easier. That’s our goal too. Our mission is to raise more self-sufficient and independent kids and we’re going to have fun doing it. We’re going to help you delegate and step back. Each episode we’ll tackle strategies for positive discipline, making our kids more responsible and making our lives better in the process. Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast.

Jessica, welcome to the podcast. I’m so excited you’re here because like I have known you like through the conferences we’ve been on for such a long time and I am super excited to get the chance to talk with you.

Jessica N Turner (02:34)

thanks so much for having me. I’m really glad to be here as well. I was just going to say I was listening to you guys with your intro and talking about big disappointments, small disappointments. that’s kind of why I wrote I thought it would be better than this, right? Because we all have things in life, big and small, that we’re like, huh, this isn’t what I imagined for my day, for my life. And so it’s when we acknowledge that, then how do we move through that? So I just like what you guys had to say and wanted to acknowledge all.

All of the disappointments are welcome here. Agree.

JoAnn Crohn (03:06)

Agreed, agreed. And I think like a lot in disappointment, acknowledging it is one of the first steps you have to do because we’ve been told, feel, especially as women, be nice, be happy, be positive, you know, let the little stuff go. And I find that when you practice that as a person, it doesn’t work because the little stuff just keeps piling and piling. And then when the big stuff comes in, it…

totally knocks you down. Your book starts out with a rather big disappointment that you had in your life. Can you tell us more about that?

Jessica N Turner (03:44)

Sure, so the genesis for my, thought it would be better than this, is I was married for 16 years. We had three kids together, like you shared, and during the pandemic, my husband came out to me and told me that he was gay. And so the book actually opens with that story. But this isn’t a book about divorce or having a gay spouse. It is about when something changes dramatically or not.

dramatically, maybe it’s something that’s just subtle that’s happening over time. And you get to a place in your life where you’re like, I thought it would be better than this. And I think so often people will say that to themselves and they’ll put a period on the end of that. You know, I thought my marriage would be better than this period. thought parenting would be better than this period. Instead of putting a comma there and an and, I thought it would be better than this. And this is what I decided to do to still create.

a life that I love. And so when I had this really big disappointment of losing my marriage, losing, you know, the best friend that I thought I would have forever in the way that I thought our friendship would be forever. My ex and I are still good friends. When that happened, I had a choice. I could just be sad, be angry, or I could be sad, be angry, and also

Brie Tucker (05:01)

Yeah.

Jessica N Turner (05:07)

heal and grow and still create a really beautiful life. And so that’s what this book is about.

Brie Tucker (05:13)

I was gonna say I love the way you said that because I feel like it is perfectly appropriate for you to feel the feelings. So to be sad, to be disappointed, all of that. And I love that your point is sit in it, let yourself have it, but then move on. Because there are things that you can do that you can create that you never thought would, I’m going to say rise from the ashes of disappointment, the things you never thought that could happen just because you had this big change, and then now all of a sudden there’s opportunity ahead of you that you had already kind of closed off to.

Jessica N Turner (05:50)

Absolutely. And I think there’s a really subtle nuance that I want to point out. I am not telling people to move on. I’m telling people to move forward. And I think that there is a very subtle difference in when we recognize that something has happened to us or something has gone differently than what we expected, but we’re still continuing to move forward and to have positive momentum in our story.

right? Like, I still am affected five years later by my divorce in lots of different ways. And sometimes it still makes me sad. Sometimes I still cry about it, even though I am wildly in love. I have a partner that’s extraordinary and beyond my wildest dreams, which I didn’t know that that would happen for me. When I wrote this book, I didn’t know that that would happen. But I think it’s just really important to not forget about what happened to you, but still move forward and grow from it.

JoAnn Crohn (06:51)

I know that time brings the biggest hindsight of all, but coming back to the moment, when you’re in the moment, what would you say to that Jessica who like just found out, has like world is crashing down, who’s not ready to look even at positivity in that moment? How would you confront her about what she was feeling then? And what would you tell her?

Jessica N Turner (07:16)

what I would tell her when I talk about in the book, I’m an enneagram eight, I don’t know if you guys are familiar with the enneagram, but eight’s really like control. And so when I was in the thick of it in the very early days, I was like, okay, but like, what is Christmas gonna look like? What about when my kids get married? Like, what are we gonna do that? And my therapist had to repeatedly remind me to stay present, to do what I needed to do to get through that day. And that healing comes and change happens slowly. And it is a hard thing when you are literally laying on the floor, right? Like it’s really hard to be able to feel okay, knowing that it’s the only way through is through, right? Yeah. But that saying of you’ve survived 100 % of your worst days was something that was true for me. And I think

is a good reminder for a lot of people when they’re in the thick of grief. The other thing that I wish I could say is it’s actually gonna be better than you can even imagine. I think that was really hard for me to believe when friends would tell me that. I talk about in the book, my friend Angie calling her crying and just being like, just tell me it’s gonna be okay, just tell me it’s gonna be okay. I get kind of emotional just thinking about those nights when I was alone, my kids were at their dad’s, I was so sad and I was like,

just tell me it’s not gonna always feel this way. And I remember her saying, I don’t know what it’s gonna look like. I don’t know how you’re gonna feel, but I know it’s not gonna always feel like this. I think that’s the encouragement I would give to other people too. Like it changes, all grief changes. Grief doesn’t ever go away. We create scar tissue, we heal, but there are still remnants of that. It isn’t like you go through these five stages of grief and then you’re better. You never remember anything about it. It’s never affecting you. That’s not what it’s like. But I think that as we heal from grief and disappointment and we create different lives from what we maybe imagine for ourselves, it actually expands us. It expands our hearts. It expands our vulnerability. And I think I would tell Jessica that she is going to be so proud of herself.

JoAnn Crohn (09:34)

That is an inspiring message. I love that. It’s a great thing to keep the eyes on hope and keep your eyes on optimism, even when you’re in the thick of it and thinking that nothing can make it better whatsoever. And what you said also about it being such a slow process, because I like the control too. I’m not an eight. In fact, I go back and forth in what enneagram I am and I could not even tell you fully. I think I might be a nine. I’m not sure or a six on some days. I don’t know. But

Having that control over the situation, I can definitely identify with and wanting to know what comes next and what I can do and how I can get out of it. And so right after this break, we’re going to go through your system of how to manage this heavy disappointment. And we’ll get to it right after this.

So Jessica, right before the break, we talked about being in that grief and focusing on what comes next and knowing that it could get so much better than this. In your book, you first talk about naming your pain and emotions while grieving. Give us a little more insight on what does that look like.

Jessica N Turner (10:45)

Right, you know, I think for a lot of people who pick up, thought it would be better than this. They read it not fully knowing what to expect or what they’re going to unpack for themselves. And so there’s an exercise in the book and it’s a drawing of a bike wheel. And I have people in the center of that wheel, write their disappointment, name the thing. And this might be the first time that people have ever done this. You know, for some of us, it would be really easy, right? Like,

my divorce or someone who has lost a loved one, you know, would be able to just write that down. But to admit, I thought parenting would be better than this. To admit even just to yourself on a piece of paper, I thought my marriage would be better than this. That is very vulnerable, honest, intimate work with yourself. But I want people to do that. And then those spokes on the wheel, you write down the things that are adjacent, that are attached to that, right?

If I thought my marriage would be better than this, maybe one of the lines is, I thought I would grow old with someone. Maybe another line is I thought I would be a two income household. Maybe another line of that is I don’t want to start dating. Whatever those things are that feel related to that disappointment. I also talk about in the book, I think people often think of divorce and you could insert other words in here as like it’s just

this one big thing, one big grief. But what it felt like for me, and I think this resonates with a lot of people, is it’s actually like a battlefield of death, or it’s like looking at a graveyard and all of these things that have now died with the marriage, right? And this exercise is to help you articulate and acknowledge some of those things, because we can only grow from what we have language for, right? So if we…

We can’t say this is something that pains me or this is something that I regret or that I have remorse for or that I wish was different if we haven’t ever articulated it. And so this exercise is to hopefully help people unpack that.

Brie Tucker (12:58)

I was gonna say like I have to say how helpful that is. I feel like when I went through my divorce and I had just it felt like everything had changed. I felt like I had this grief, but I didn’t know how to word it. So that’s a really good idea right there. Like being able to sit down and actually like put a label on all the things that are making you sad because sometimes you’re like, I should be doing better. Why am I still not? And you don’t even realize that there’s all these other little pieces that are floating around.

Jessica N Turner (13:27)

That’s right. JoAnn, can I tell a quick story in the book that’s related to this? 

JoAnn Crohn (13:31)

Of course. 

We love stories. before you tell the story, I did want to ask this one follow-up question on the wheel. When you did that exercise, I know that when I’m writing, sometimes things come out that I don’t even know are in there. Are there any spokes on the wheel that came out for you that you were really surprised to see that you thought should be better?

Jessica N Turner (13:54)

So I actually created that exercise when I was writing the book. So it wasn’t one that I went through in real time. I did it kind of after I had done my work. But this is actually the perfect segue because the story that I wanted to share ties with this. So we’re gonna come back around. ⁓

JoAnn Crohn (14:12)

Let’s do it.

Come back in the garage. Like a wheel. Like a wheel.

Jessica N Turner (14:18)

Exactly. So after my divorce, I remained in the house that my ex-husband and I had. And I was remodeling my kitchen and dining room. And my dining room was really beautiful. There was a lot of crown molding. It didn’t really fit the aesthetic that I was going for. And we were changing the lighting in the room. So the crown molding came down and what we found were wires stapled all the way around the room.

JoAnn Crohn (14:44)

Home improvement 

Jessica N Turner (14:47)

I don’t know much about home improvement, but I knew that that wasn’t right. That’s not the way to do it.

Brie Tucker (14:51)

And she isn’t the way to do it.

So it’s a hope and a prayer.

Jessica N Turner (14:55)

Exactly. That’s exactly what it was. So the person had put can lights in, didn’t want to string them all the way through the drywall in the whole room. And so just stapled them to the wall.

JoAnn Crohn (15:06)

It’s a horrible fire hazard.

Jessica N Turner (15:09)

Exactly. Exactly. So my contractor said, you’re really lucky you didn’t have a fire. Yeah. And I think that’s so true for life. Everything looks fine. But actually, just below the surface, there’s these wires that aren’t right and that are a fire hazard. Yep. And what happens in grief and disappointment is we’re basically remodeling, right? Like we’re making things better. We’re ripping out things.

And we find these wires exactly what you were talking about, Bri. We find these wires and there’s more work to do, right? Like we can’t leave it like it is here. That just is a really helpful visualization for me that like this work actually creates more work, right? Like, if you acknowledge something that you didn’t even realize was there that you now have to explore where does that wire go to? What else is that? You know, we’re talking like I was doing childhood work and all of these different things that were getting unpacked.

that I never expected when I got divorced that stemmed from really doing that inner work of excavation and improvement.

JoAnn Crohn (16:15)

It’s always funny how the other problems come out as soon as you start doing the work. I have not had a major life upheaval such as divorce, but I have been through a lot of anxiety. And I know that as soon as I started doing the work for anxiety, as soon as one thing I thought was solved, another thing pops up in its place. like as soon as I could be, and Brie can attest to this because she deals with me on a daily basis.

As soon as I could be calm, and I’m saying that in a loving way. Yes. As soon as I could be calm in one area, I then realized that, my gosh, I have so much worries and anxiety about finances and money. I have never been put in control of it before. And when I see that, all of this shame and guilt against myself comes up. And that’s why I get so anxious about it. So just…

going through the work like you said, Jessica, and uncovering those things, it helps you uncover more and more about yourself that you could then work on. And you’re constantly in this state of improvement that never ends.

Jessica N Turner (17:20)

That’s right. And I now use that rewiring language even in my current relationship with my boyfriend, you know, we’ll have a conversation or whatever and it’ll strike something in me and I’m like, gosh, why did I react that way? Why am I feeling that way? And I’ll be like, ⁓ I haven’t completely rewired that yet. This still needs some work, know, so it’s just a gentleness with myself, a permission for what I’m feeling and acknowledgement of work and healing that has been really rewarding and helpful for me.

JoAnn Crohn (17:51)

Yeah. Now I know that so many women, especially those listening here in the No Get One podcast, they really define themselves in terms of their relationships and their partners. And you mentioned this as well in your work. So right after this, we’re going to go get into those how you found who you are again and investing in yourself. And we’ll do that right after this.

So Jessica, you mentioned like first step is finding how you’re feeling, naming your pain, naming your emotions. And then you go into really starting to invest back into yourself, your community, your friendships, your creative pursuits. And I’ve seen this a lot in our coaching where many women don’t even know how to start investing in themselves because they haven’t done it in such a long time.

So like, how do you view that process? Where can people start?

Jessica N Turner (18:49)

That’s so interesting that you say that. My first book came out a decade ago and it’s called The Fringe Hours, Making Time for You. And it’s a book specifically about the importance of women making time for themselves and finding those pockets of time. So that’s something that’s always been valuable to me. What was unfamiliar for me was knowing myself apart from an intimate relationship. I was married when I just turned 22.

I met my ex-husband when I was in college. So I kind of just didn’t know myself apart from that role of wife. And so for me, it was just this exploration of taking control of a lot of things that weren’t my responsibility. I never had to really think about and paying attention to how my body felt, what I needed. I was having days by myself where I didn’t have kids with me. And so it really just forced me to evaluate everything. And I think that this isn’t something that someone has to go through a divorce to do, right? But it is an intentional process, something that I invested a lot of time and probably the thing that was the newest for me and was the most transformative was therapy. I had never done therapy prior to getting divorced when my marriage was on the rocks right before my ex-husband told me that he was gay. We had entered couples therapy and I was doing some therapy on my own then, but that

really, I think, helped me progress in a much more rapid fashion than if I had tried to do it all on my own. And it was so transformative. I actually went to a six day intensive called OnSite, which there’s one location just outside of Nashville, and then there’s another one in California. And you go for six days and they say that six days at OnSite is the equivalent to eight months of therapy. That’s how intense it is.

And I would say that it’s true. And so when people look at it and they’re like, this is so expensive, but if you like actually do the math on the hours, it was kind of on par with what that much therapy would be. But it really, really helped me. And it was so great that I ended up creating a free course with one of the therapists at onsite that everyone who reads the book gets access to at the end of the book, which I love. Yeah. And it’s just a conversation around disappointment that I think helps people feel really seen and.

That was the biggest thing for me was that I had somebody bearing witness to what I was feeling who was offering me a safe place to process those things and heal and grow and kind of build that scaffolding when I didn’t know what I was doing.

JoAnn Crohn (21:22)

Now my kids are getting older. Like I have a 16 year old and 11 year old and I’ve been taking more, more trips where I have a lot of alone time. So for example, like this past week, I went back to New York city to pick up my daughter from a summer program and I was there for like about 24 hours on my own. And you’re right when like your regular routine is removed and you don’t have people to take care of and your kids are not around and your spouse is not around and you’re totally alone.

you start tuning into your body. Like I had to go and force myself to get out of the hotel room and find something to eat because I was just like snacking based on, you know, I had nothing to do. And I don’t think that people like when they get into a situation like this where they have a major life people and they have this big change, how much your day to day life revolves around other people giving you cues for what your own body needs.

And that when you’re left on your own, you start having to pay attention to, my gosh, I cannot stay in the room and eat this bag of gummy lifesavers that I bought because I’m going to feel like complete crap. I have to actually go take care of myself. In regards to that, Jessica, is there anything else that you discovered in therapy where you’re like, my gosh, I really need to improve or I need to pay attention to this area in my life because this is like,

I’m not doing so well here without others till they kind of give me my cues.

Jessica N Turner (22:51)

You know, I don’t think that it was in therapy, but kind of simultaneously, I was one of those stereotypes that bought a bike during the pandemic.

Yeah, and so simultaneous with my divorce and the therapy was I started moving my body a lot more and recognized how much that improved how I feel. And there’s lots of studies around that, not so much like changing my physique, but changing just my inner health and my strength and my mental clarity. So that was something that I did.

I did also notice, kind of like what you were saying with the gummy lifesavers, that sometimes I was not making the best choices with food when I was by myself. It was like, well, I feel sad, so I’m going to eat ice cream. I mean, I was like a stereotype in every way, right?

Brie Tucker (23:45)

I never locked myself in my house for the weekend, actually for the week and lived on a whole pizza. That never happened.

Jessica N Turner (23:52)

Never, right. so, you know, I think it was more like, huh, why am I doing this? And, you know, paying attention to those things. It really just became a quieting of my spirit and myself so that I could pay attention to what I was doing to take care of my body and take care of myself. And then at the same time, start to grow, I…

left my corporate job to become a full-time entrepreneur. Cause I was like, when the dream of my marriage died, I’m not going to let this other dream die as well. I got brave and started dating. mean, that’s something that I talked about a lot in therapy. was like, am I ready for this? You know, and the therapist is never going to probably directly tell you, you need to do this. Except my therapist did that when it was dating time. Like she was like, it’s time. You’ve been talking about this for so long. Like you are ready. She just knew that I needed just that.

tiny little kick, that little affirmation to take that next step. So those are some of the things that come to mind with that question.

JoAnn Crohn (24:54)

Okay, short little tangent. Have you watched Shrinking on Apple TV with Jason Segel and Harrison Ford?

Jessica N Turner (25:00)

I think I watched the first season, but I have not watched it since.

JoAnn Crohn (25:05)

That is something that Jason Segel’s therapist character does. He starts telling his patients exactly what to do. And that’s why I was reminded of that because it did not work out well for him. ⁓

Jessica N Turner (25:17)

I was 97 % there she was like, death, go. Little bird, fly off the ledge.

JoAnn Crohn (25:25)

That’s an encouraging thing because sometimes we do need that little push from someone who sees us, who knows us really well, and who could say, you were definitely ready for this first step and you are holding yourself back from the life you could have. Which brings us to your next step, which is the revival of everything and accepting how things are and creating this life that is better and amazing. I love what you say.

and what you mentioned at the beginning of the episode where you’re like, yes, this is what happened to me, comma, instead of period. So like, how did that look for you? How does life actually look better for you now? Or like, I don’t want to say better because I don’t want to invalidate the life you had before. But how has it changed so that you never thought it could be like this in a good way?

Jessica N Turner (26:17)

Gosh, in so many ways, I think that I have a lot more confidence in myself. I’m somebody that honestly, in my marriage, you wouldn’t have said, Jessica’s not a confident person. But there is a confidence that was birthed out of this experience that I think has been really transformative for me. I think that it’s been really empowering for me to have my own business and to be doing that by myself. The whole reason why I never left corporate America

to be a full-time influencer in my marriage was because I carried the benefits, I felt too stressful. And when I didn’t have anyone else to say, is this the right time? Maybe we should wait a little, you know, like, and I just did it. Like that has been huge. It’s given me more capacity for time with my kids, more flexibility. It’s just been phenomenal in every single way. And I don’t write about this in the book.

I write about dating experiences a bit in the book, but it felt really important to me when I was writing, I thought it would be better than this, that I not be in a relationship. Not that I like ended a relationship because I was writing a book, but it just like sort of happened that way. And it felt really important to me that I needed to feel fully confident in myself and in what I learned without being in a relationship. And a year later,

as I was reading the audio book for this book. So I turned in the manuscript in March of last year. And in April of last year, I met someone named John who I’m still dating. And I read the audio book in late January. So it had been almost a year and everything rang just as true for me. And that felt to me like such affirmation that I wasn’t missing anything by not having a person.

I think when you feel wholly yourself and you are with another partner who’s wholly themselves, it’s extremely beautiful and intimate in a way that I didn’t know. think probably because I was codependent on Matthew. I was so young, just the way our personalities were and our emotions and a whole lot of things. Yeah. And so that’s been really empowering and beautiful.

and more than I feel like I ever could have imagined for my story.

JoAnn Crohn (28:42)

Yeah, Brie was nodding

Brie Tucker (28:46)

I have to throw out one thing. So like, remember going through my divorce, I got divorced when I was 37. And I remember thinking to myself, before that happened, it’s not like our marriage did not have warning signals, there was like lights and alarms going off everywhere constantly, I would just be like, let’s let’s just ignore those put on the blinders. But I remember a big thing being like, I don’t want to have to date at this age. And I kept thinking back, and this is my only point to bring up on this is that

I kept thinking it was going to be like it was in my twenties. Like it was when I was in college, because I, met mine as well in college. And so you’re like, okay, I’m not ready to go to have to deal with going to the fire scene again. And where am I going to meet people? Like I don’t work in a, I work at a place for like teaching. So like everybody’s married and has kids. so it was very scary, but the nice thing about it was like what you said, like at the end, first of all, dating is completely different.

in your forties, I’m just going to tell you that right now. So if you’re in a place where like you have to put yourself out there for people and you’re terrified of it being like it was in your twenties, I think Jessica and I can both test. It’s not like it was in your twenties. Totally different. You know what you’re not looking for somebody to shack up with, get married and start a life with. Like you’re looking for someone who, like you said, is whole, is complete because you’ve already like learned that going through and fusing with one other person probably isn’t your best bet.

JoAnn Crohn (29:55)

Yeah

Brie Tucker (30:14)

And I agree wholeheartedly that I would never want anyone to have to go through a divorce to get to this point. So like you said, find the time, pause and do that work to find what makes you, you and happy instead of like continuing on with the labels that you’ve always had because they were good enough.

JoAnn Crohn (30:35)

⁓ they’re good enough. Yeah. Right.

Brie Tucker (30:38)

Yeah.

It’s good enough that I’m Albert’s mom. It’s good enough that I am, I’m married. It’s good enough that I have a full-time job with benefits. And it’s like, we’re not saying blow up your life. We’re not saying hit the red button and go nuclear, but do the wheel exercise. Like what is it where you would like it to be where you’re saying it’s good enough and really like dive into that.

JoAnn Crohn (30:52)

Take a moment!

Yes, Jessica, you have given such a great framework to anyone who is managing disappointment. And if you are managing disappointment right now, heavy, heavy disappointment in your life, here are those steps again. It’s naming your pain and emotions, figuring out like all the little gravestones, like you said, in the graveyard of pain, Jessica, what those are.

Investing in yourself again, figuring out what you like, figuring out how to listen to your body, moving to your body. And then finally, like looking at those next steps, accepting things like how they are and being that total whole person that is not dependent on someone else. And Jessica, where can everybody find you?

Jessica N Turner (31:44)

I spend most of my time on Instagram, so you can find me there. My handle is Jessica N. Turner. That N is for Nicole. And my website is the same, jessicanterner.com. And don’t miss the N, because jessicanterner.com is a porn site. ⁓ I welcome, everyone. Pull that up.

Brie Tucker (32:02)

Thank you for bringing that up!

JoAnn Crohn (32:04)

Because… Can you imagine?

Brie Tucker (32:06)

I would have like missed the it just been like typed it in ⁓

JoAnn Crohn (32:10)

Look at the link

Jessica N Turner (32:11)

Right. So I’m going to help you find deals and manage your life and give you honesty about grief and love and all of those things. So I would love for you all to connect with me on there. You can get the book wherever books are sold. Your local indie bookstore can order it for you, or you can find it at Target, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, all of those great places. And also it’s available on audiobook. And the audiobook is really special because not only do I read the book, but there’s a exclusive conversation with my best friend of 20 years. We’ve both walked through a lot of grief and we just talk about being a friend to somebody going through a hard time. So this is a great book for people listening, but it’s also a great book to give to someone else who’s going through a hard time.

JoAnn Crohn (32:53)

That’s excellent. And in line with this positivity and this joy, looking out into the future, this is something that we ask all of our guests. What is something that you are looking forward to right now?

Jessica N Turner (33:06)

I am really looking forward to going to the beach at the end of the summer. I live in Nashville and we’re going to Destin. I’m taking the kids there and I just love Destin so much. I love the Sugar Beaches there. It just is such a happy place for our family. So I’m really looking forward to that in just a few short weeks.

JoAnn Crohn (33:26)

That is awesome. Immediately I start singing the Taylor Swift song, Florida. Florida. And they mentioned Destin. It’s not in same way though. yeah.

Brie Tucker (33:36)

to the beach is a good trip. So there you go.

JoAnn Crohn (33:38)

So Florida has such beautiful water. love it there. Well, you so much, Jessica, for joining us today and everybody go follow Jessica N Turner and get her book. thought it would be better than this wherever you find the books and we will see you next time.

Jessica N Turner (33:57)

Bye!