Podcast Episode 423: It’s Not You, It’s Your Brain: The ADHD Burnout Bomb No One Talks About Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

JoAnn Crohn (00:00)

Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I’m your host, JoAnn Crone. Joined here by the brilliant Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker (00:07)

Hello everybody, How are you?

JoAnn Crohn (00:09)

We get to dig into one of our favorite topics here on the No Guilt Mom podcast because we find it so comforting when it describes us all the time. It’s ADHD.

Brie Tucker (00:19)

Yep. Yeah, we are definitely squirrel kind of people.

JoAnn Crohn (00:25)

And also you get into a sense of ADHD burnout. I’ve been feeling the burnout lately, Bri, and I have a feeling that it’s due to my unique brain makeup in addition to all the overwhelming stuff in the world. And so I’m really excited to get into this conversation, especially now around the holidays where we have so much on our plate and so many outside expectations that we have to fulfill. So many self-imposed expectations that we have to fulfill.

Brie Tucker (00:52)

Right? think that when it comes to this time of the year, I call it like the over the hump of the roller coaster and you have so many things going on in a societal standpoint, so many expectations for families to be happy and gleeful and do all these things that if you have trouble like focusing, it makes you feel like such a failure. I cannot think of a single holiday season where I haven’t felt like I completely dropped the ball on something.

And when I have articulated that to my loved ones, they’ve been like, no, everything’s been great, been fine. But I think- Yeah, I’m sucking.

JoAnn Crohn (01:29)

That reminds me, I’ve been doing some research into guilt lately and I found a definition of guilt that I really enjoy and I think you’re going to enjoy it too. Guilt is a core emotion governing social behavior by promoting compliance with social norms and self-imposed standards. So like you feeling all the guilt like you dropped the ball over the holidays, It’s that compliance with what you perceive as social norms and also like what you expect of yourself, the standards you expect of yourself, which may not be realistic, but it’s hard, it’s hard. But today we’re gonna get a little better understanding of our brains and what we’re doing. And we’re gonna get that help from our new friend, Meredith Carter, who is here in the Phoenix area, which I very much enjoy when you can meet people in person.

Meredith, she is an ADHD coach and advocate. She’s the author of It All Makes Sense Now Embrace Your ADHD Brain to Live a Creative and Colorful Life. But you may also know her as at Hummingbird ADHD on Instagram. She creates supportive spaces that help adults with ADHD better understand their unique brain wiring. And she lives in Chandler, Arizona with her family, including her three kids ages 19, 16, and 11. I’m excited to start this interview. Let’s get on with the show.

Meredith Carder (02:55)

I am so excited to be here, thank you.

JoAnn Crohn (02:58)

Yeah, I’m excited to have you on the podcast and to talk all things ADHD. And in your book, Meredith, you describe ADHD not as a deficit, but as a different wiring of the brain. So for moms or women who suspect they might have ADHD but haven’t been diagnosed, what are some signs that they might recognize in themselves?

Meredith Carder (03:21)

A lot of the moms I work with with ADHD come to me after feeling like they have this strange imbalance in their life where they’re really good at a lot of things that other people can’t do, but they’re struggling with the mundane things of everyday life. And as a mom, there are so much things, right? So many things. It just doesn’t make sense to them. for a lot of these women, it’s been this way their whole life. So even before children, the work may be told they were gifted in school or they were really creative or talented in some way, but they couldn’t turn in their homework. They couldn’t find their homework half of the time.

Or they may have really been excited about projects at the beginning, but struggled to finish them and couldn’t figure out why that motivation dropped off so drastically. So those are just a few of the things I hear from moms often. ⁓

Brie Tucker (04:21)

Okay, that is 100 % me. I am the queen of getting excited about a new hobby or something. Getting all revved up about it, researching the heck out of it, buying like half of the supplies for it, maybe doing one piece and then I’m like, ah, I’m bored. And then it just sits there.

JoAnn Crohn (04:40)

The motivation wins. And Meredith, I know that you got diagnosed with ADHD later on in life. Like, how did your diagnosis happen?

Meredith Carder (04:49)

Well, it started with my daughter. We had some things that she was struggling with from a very young age. She also was extremely hyperactive and we had noticed that early on and we decided to get her evaluated to see what was happening here. And as I was filling out the behavior scales that they give you to fill out as a parent and you pass on to the teacher as well, I’m rating them all for her, but I’m kind of secretly rating them for myself in my own brain because so many of the symptoms that they’re looking for described my experience. And it was just like this experience of suddenly having this question in my brain, thinking maybe it’s me too, learning that it’s like 80 % of kids with ADHD have a parent that has ADHD, that definitely wasn’t my husband. And then diving into all of the information once she was diagnosed.

It became pretty clear to me quickly that I had ADHD. And then I took some time to recover from the overwhelm of advocating for her and getting her set up with supports before I pursued my own official diagnosis. But I did get that confirmed about a year or so later.

JoAnn Crohn (06:01)

And what did like having that diagnosis shift in your thinking for you?

Meredith Carder (06:07)

You know, it just was a really empowering starting point to reframe a lot of the negative stories I had about myself. It was really confusing to me because oftentimes I would tell myself, I must be lazy because I can’t finish this thing. But it didn’t make sense because I was also like training for a marathon at the same time. So I was like, that doesn’t sound like a lazy person, but I can’t keep my house clean. Every time someone comes over, I’m like, throwing stuff in cabinets and living in fear that they’re going to open them and see all my stuff. And it just allowed me to look at all these things I held so much shame around and understand that I had real struggles that I just didn’t even understand for most of my life. And it gave me that opportunity to talk to myself a little bit differently. It gave me permission to try different strategies than the ones that were in the million self-help books I’d been reading in my whole life that weren’t working for me. So it really just allowed me to look through everything with a different lens.

JoAnn Crohn (07:09)

I think that’s a really important thing because Abrey and I have talked about it on the podcast. We have both had therapy experiences where like we go and we’re like, we think we have ADHD. And like my therapist in particular, I’ll share it with that. And she’s like, well, we’re treating you for anxiety. So what would be the reason that you get the diagnosis for ADHD? And you kind of stop there and you’re like, well, if I’m getting treated for it, what difference does it make? But right here, you’re telling us different it makes a difference in how you talk to yourself. makes a difference in how you feel about yourself. mean, Brie, what are you thinking through all this? Okay.

Brie Tucker (07:44)

So first of all, I agree because like my therapist, as you know, this was the funniest part my therapist said to me. Well, I don’t think you have ADHD because if you did, your parents probably would have had you tested when you were younger. Did you not have any signs? And I said to her, like I laughed and go, well, I had signs, but my parents just chalked it up to me being quirky. And she’s like, well, like what? I’m like, well, my parents always told my teachers, don’t put me by the windows. I’ll be distracted. When I played softball, they would never put me in the outfield because I would start dancing in the outfield because I would be bored. They had to put me at catcher to keep me focused on the game. And moving one time, I remember every time we stopped, I’d have to get out and run laps around the trucks because I just couldn’t sit still for that long. My therapist laughed at me. She was just like, okay, well, I think we could just say you have it then. But I digress. I was going to say, from what I have read, though, being treated for anxiety can also be incorrect if you have ADHD. And so the fact that your therapist even said that kind of makes me go, okay, but wait a minute. They say that sometimes when you’re being treated for anxiety instead of ADHD, your anxiety is never going to be rectified because it’s not true anxiety. And I see Meredith shaking her head, yes. And I would love to hear more about this.

Meredith Carder (09:04)

Yes, I would love to talk about this. also was laughing that you were the catcher for softball because my daughter played one season and she was the catcher for that exact year. Shout out to all the ADCs.

Brie Tucker (09:14)

 Shout out to all the ADHD girls in softball. We were all catchers or pitchers. That was all we could do.

JoAnn Crohn (09:19)

Spot the ADHD girl

Meredith Carder (09:21)

We know exactly what’s coming at you and you can’t avoid it and it’s going to be there no matter what. You’ll pay attention. You don’t want to get hit with that ball. Yeah. So yes, that is actually really funny. There’s a couple of things I wanted to talk about with what you were just saying. First, it is actually very common for women to be diagnosed in adulthood rather than childhood. The average age for women is about 35 right now. Oh, wow. And for boys, it’s 12. There’s that.

Meredith Carder (09:49)

Okay, I might have gotten that number slightly wrong for boys. I have to double check. In fact, check that, but around elementary schools sometimes. Yes, yes. And so if you grew up in the 80s, 90s, early 2000s, even sometimes now, a lot of the providers didn’t have much education around how ADHD presents in girls. So they are not seeing that in attentive presentation where it’s more daydreaming.

Meredith Carder (10:17)

Those girls aren’t as disruptive, so nobody’s really as worried about them because their behavior isn’t really impacting anything other than their own child. They still really need help. They still really need to be identified, but it’s less likely that those kids are identified. And then even the girls that present with hyperactivity, like myself, I was a pretty hyper kid. They just called me Meredith the Mouth.

Meredith Carder (10:41)

and I talked too much and I interrupted too much and I bounced my leg during chapel because I went to a private school and I was always doodling and doing all those those things and they put me up front and they like, you know, gave me extra work and things like that to kind of deal with it. But because I liked school, I liked learning, I wasn’t really overly disruptive. So it just was not on anyone’s radar. So it is very common for women in adulthood to all of a sudden be like, well, nobody ever mentioned this before. Could this even be true? And oftentimes we question ourselves a lot. So finding that provider that has that kind of framework to understand what a late diagnosis would look like is really, really important. You do have to have that evidence from childhood, but just because nobody told you, you might have ADHD does not mean you don’t. Right. And then for that anxiety piece.

JoAnn Crohn (11:33)

I was gonna add into that, like I was more the inattentive person. Like I’m the one who like constantly being told, well, why weren’t you paying attention during this explanation? And I’m like, I tried to pay attention. I can only give myself self-compassion now as an adult for what I had as a kid, because I had so much self-shame thinking like I was not trying hard enough. I was not doing what I needed to do, And right after this, Meredith, we’re going to get into that anxiety piece and also something that ADHDers may use to compensate a little bit, an optimization trap. So you’re going to find out about that right after this. Right before the break, Meredith, we were talking about that anxiety piece, the treating of anxiety versus the treating of ADHD. And you’re about to say, before I interrupted.

Brie Tucker (12:25)

What can you tell there’s three of us here that are all interrupting.

Meredith Carder (12:29)

This is how ADHD conversations go. It is actually really common for ADHD and anxiety to be comorbid, but it’s also very common for people to be treated for years for anxiety and make some progress, but maybe not a lot of impactful change with that treatment because it isn’t actually clinical anxiety. It’s the anxiety that comes from having all of these symptoms that are making it difficult for you to meet social norms. So you are that person that interrupts too much. So you’re anxious about conversations and meeting new people because that’s hard for you because you struggle to stay focused. You’re anxious about meetings. You’re anxious about missing things at work.

Because you’re struggling with keeping this schedule of your family. You think you’re going to miss things and make mistakes. So that can create a lot of anxiety when we’re not understanding that there are executive function issues and all the things that come with ADHD that are really kind of making that anxiety seem like it’s the main thing that we should be looking at.

JoAnn Crohn (13:41)

Yeah, that’s interesting. Like you say that and I’m like anxious. What am I anxious about? Usually and in social situations, I’m not anxious about interrupting. I am anxious about I tend to lose focus in a noisy environment. My hearing will go immediately to the music being played or the conversation at the other table versus what someone’s saying in front of me so that it sounds like someone’s not even speaking English in front of me because it gets pulled like that.

And I only know to describe this to you because I know it’s a symptom of ADHD, the auditory processing.

Meredith Carder (14:14)

Yeah, really what’s happening in those situations is that the filtering systems in an ADHD brain are different than an neurotypical brain. So an neurotypical brain can focus on what’s most important in an environment like that. So they’re focusing on the conversation or what they’re supposed to be paying attention to. And yeah, they’ll hear all the other things going on, but it’s not like grabbing their attention in such an extreme way. And our filtering system lets everything in. So we can’t turn down that noise. It’s actually super interesting because they also think because our filtering system is different, that it actually helps us be creative problem solvers. We’re able to connect differences that other people don’t see. It helps us be really good in a crisis because we can see things happening that other people are tuning out. So that filtering system being different is really annoying in certain situations, but then it can also be leading to some other really interesting strengths too.

JoAnn Crohn (15:11)

It helped me in the classroom when I was a classroom teacher. I knew everything that was going on. Nobody could pull a move against me. I would like find it right there. And it’s interesting though, how you build your life around kind of working through your environment. You build different coping strategies to do it. One thing that I did, I know when I was a kid is, and even now as an adult, is that I try to do things the correct way to kind of, I guess, compensate for doing things the wrong way for so long. And you were mentioning optimization traps. And I was like, my gosh, this is exactly what I do, Meredith. So can you explain what optimization traps are?

Meredith Carder (15:53)

So an optimization trap is a tendency to instead of just focusing on getting to an outcome in a way that is possible, has a positive impact, we’re focused on doing it the exact perfect way. So I like to give an example to kind of bring it to life a little bit. So a lot of times people are looking to improve their focus at work with ADHD. ⁓

and they’re listening to all these podcasts, they’re reading all these books about focus, and they come up with this morning routine that includes waking up at the exact same time every day, going outside and getting 10 minutes of sun in their eyes, looking in the right direction, maybe doing a cold plunge, going out and getting like cardio in the exact heart rate zone they need to be in to get the most to benefit. And then they come home and they can do that a couple of times and maybe it does help their focus, but it’s not very sustainable. It’s not sustainable for me. I don’t know how many people it’s sustainable for to do all of those things. So we try to over optimize things because we’re like, if someone just gives us this framework and we do it, maybe we won’t make so many mistakes and maybe our struggle will go away. But then we have the opposite effect because we burn out on it very quickly. And then we lose that trust that we can see improvement, that we can make changes because we’re trying to do way too many things to be able to get to the change we want.

Brie Tucker (17:17)

Okay, I feel like you perfectly described my thought process through my whole entire life of if I just found the right organizational system, I could get my shiznit together. And I have yet to ever find, I’ll find it, it’ll work for like a week and then it falls off and I’m like, dang, I can’t do this one either. Well, there must be another one out there. And like, you keep thinking you’re gonna find something that’s gonna make it all work, but. Now I know it’s, it’s not necessarily not, it is me, but it’s not me. Does that make sense?

Meredith Carder (17:53)

Yeah, that’s a really common experience I hear from my clients. It’s a experience I’ve had myself where I’m like, okay, this isn’t working anymore. What’s the next book I’m going to read that’s going to change my life? Yeah. What’s the next thing I need to change? What’s the food I need to eat to sleep better? And we get stuck in that researching the system versus actually experimenting and trying to find a system that’s actually making sense for us. Oftentimes too, I have a ton of clients that like…

They don’t want to try anything new anymore because they have tried so many things and it would work for a little bit and then it would drop off and then they feel shame that they stopped doing the thing that was working. And it’s this big cycle of shame and loss of self-trust when I really like to empower people to be like, if it’s working for now, keep writing that out. It’s going to shift at some point, know that that might happen and then pick up a different system that’s like simple and actionable for you or take what you learned from that system that worked and come up with a new one and embrace that creativity because most things are going to get boring for us long term. Most routines are going to get boring and our brains are very driven by interest. So sometimes we need the new strategy to try to keep us going. But when we overcomplicate it and make it very focused on optimization versus getting the thing done, we get into trouble.

JoAnn Crohn (19:11)

⁓ I resemble that comment. Like everything like you just said is like me and entrepreneurship. I am constantly looking for the next thing that I am excited about that I could put forward that is going to like make no guilt mom be like the best ever. And I have a business coach right now. He’s phenomenal. But one thing he said is like with scaling a business and you can apply this to any part of your life.

You have to experiment. You have to take little steps and then you have to improve with those little steps on what works. And I’ve never done that before in my entire life, Meredith. It’s always been like new thing after new thing after new exciting thing. So right after this, I want to talk about how eight people with ADHD, why they’re susceptible to this and also like what they could do to kind of counteract it. Especially if like me, you may be a little in the fit of disbelief that this would even work for you or that you could even test things and stick with it. So we’ll do that right after this. So Meredith, we were talking about optimization traps. And why do you think that people with ADHD are more susceptible to these optimization traps?

Meredith Carder (20:30)

So there’s a few things. I think that a lot of us have developed perfectionistic tendencies thanks to trying to mask our symptoms from everyone else. We talked a little bit about that earlier. And then there’s also just some features of how the ADHD brain is wired that leaves us more vulnerable to this type of behavior. One of them is hyper-focus. So hyper-focus for anyone that’s not familiar with that term in your audience is just this ability that ADHDers have to be dialed into something. Oftentimes we like get really into researching something, to gathering all of this information and the world around us is disappearing. So when our brain normally like can’t filter information suddenly, it’s really only focused on one thing. We can’t really regulate our attention around it. It is all in. So because we have that tendency, if we learn about this new system and we have this new problem to solve, we get laser focused on finding that perfect stack of things to be able to get the outcome we want. And oftentimes, like some of this stuff we’re learning is really interesting. It’s not necessarily wrong information we’re consuming. Like, yeah, that’s just cool that like photosynthesis happens in the morning and all I have to do is go outside and look at the sun. And like, that’s great. You know what I mean? That seems like an accessible strategy, but when we’re so hyper-focused on getting all of the steps perfect, we are just going to create something that’s completely unrealistic to follow.

And then another reason I think we are really susceptible is cognitive flexibility is one of the executive functions people with ADHD struggle with. So it means in kind of colloquial terms that we have all or nothing thinking. So we started thinking, okay, there’s only one way to do this. I’ve got to be able to do this exact business program and follow it perfectly to get the result to like scale my business.

And we look at that and like you said, it might be something that we can do for a little while, but maybe it’s not sustainable for the life we have. Maybe this business program is designed for someone that doesn’t have young kids at home or that has more financial resources. And so we go all in on it. And then when it doesn’t work because of other nuanced things happening around us, we think it’s because of us and we quit completely and we give up on that goal. So that all or nothing thinking around these types of topics really sets us up to be.

susceptible to falling into these traps.

JoAnn Crohn (22:55)

yeah, all or nothing thinking is definitely a hard thing. We have in our balance program, there is a lesson about creating a morning routine. And I can spot the women with ADHD pretty quickly because they’re the ones who get stuck on creating the perfect morning routine. Who won’t get past it, who won’t like try and experiment with it. And it’s so interesting what you’re saying because I have fallen into those traps too. There’s this program called 75 hard. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. Yes.

JoAnn Crohn (23:24)

but it’s a very prescriptive thing you do every day. You have to drink a gallon of water. You have to go 45 minutes exercise twice a day. One has to be outside. You need to read 10 pages of a book. You have to follow a diet plan, like all those things. And I tried it for two days and then I gave up because it was the hardest mental thing to do, It wasn’t that I wasn’t physically capable of it. It was like all of my emotions inside were screaming for me to stop. And I know that emotional regulation is also something with ADHD. What do you tell those people who like feel like they’re just struggling against their emotions when they’re trying to put something in place in their lives?

Meredith Carder (24:09)

You know, I honestly tell people that are struggling with emotional regulation to start there versus trying to fix all of these other symptoms that might be hard for them because you can have all these tools in your toolkit. But if you’re overwhelmed and you’re outside of your ability to tolerate stress because you are having such a big emotional reaction, none of these things are going to be helpful to you. You’re not going to be able to access them. So, have you guys talked about the zone of regulation in any of your episodes before or zone of tolerance actually?

Brie Tucker (24:42)

Not in our podcast episodes.

JoAnn Crohn (24:44)

Yeah, tell us more about the zone of tolerance.

Meredith Carder (24:46)

Yeah, so the zone of tolerance is just that state that any human ADHD or not exists in when they are able to stay calm, they can think clearly, they’re reasoning well, they’re handling stressors. It’s not a state where there are no stressors, but we can navigate them, right? So with people with ADHD, that zone of tolerance is a little more narrow than a person that does not have ADHD. So it takes less things to push us up outside of the like, get us high, get us like temperamental, get us excited, but so excited we can’t move forward on things. You see that in kids a lot, right? Where they’re like so wired that you can’t get them to focus. It’s when we are feeling angry, when we are feeling a lot of shame, we are pushed up like too high. Sometimes we are below, we’re like hypo aroused and that means that we’re feeling apathetic.

We’re feeling like we can’t initiate tasks. We’re feeling kind of that low level of just dissatisfaction. So staying within that zone is really important and working on being able to both make that zone bigger every day by doing things like getting a little bit of movement in every day, being in community, doing a lot of those things that fall under the self-care umbrella can help us widen that And then also having tools to either up-regulate or down-regulate depending on what’s going on when you notice that you’re reacting. I think that’s a really good place to start with people that are struggling with their emotions getting in the way of their progress. And just, it’s not great to feel emotionally dysregulated all the time. It’s not a great way to exist. tackling that first before you worry about motivation, focus, all those other things is really important.

JoAnn Crohn (26:43)

It’s interesting you say having those tools to either up level or down level. think immediately of my son and the dishwasher. He has to have music in his ears to unload the dishwasher. And I think that’s what you’re talking about, the tools to kind of down level his emotions so he can keep emotionally regulated while he’s doing this task that he is so like emotionally aroused about and feels so much anger. And I can describe that pretty well because I have the same tendency to do that.

When I write my books, I have to put on music as well to keep myself emotionally regulated, else I get so hyper aroused and angry and scared and fearful that I’m not doing the right things that it helps calm down. Music is one of those tools for me.

Brie Tucker (27:27)

Okay, well first of all, Meredith, everything you said, I’m like, yep, been there, been there, been there. Like I was thinking about those apathetic times and I’m like, yeah, those are the times that I typically am getting treated for depression. But really it was just a lack of not being able to get up and do things. It’s like that meme of like, I wanna do the task. I’m tired of not doing the task. I wanna get up, I wanna do these things, but alas, my body won’t let me. But also JoAnn, how you were just talking about like needing to have the sound to emotionally regulate yourself. I feel like I need it as a distraction because if I don’t and I’m doing something and someone like cracks a twig and you’ve seen this happen, JoAnn, I will go off on them. I will be like, Ah! How could you be so loud and disruptive! So yeah, it protects others from me

Meredith Carder (28:14)

Yeah. So yeah. Yes, I highly, highly relate to that. I do a lot of work. I like kind of take my laptop and just journey around my house throughout the day to change my environment, to kind of keep it stimulating enough. And if I’m working in my living room and the laundry room door is open and there’s that load of laundry where it’s done, but the dryer just…

Meredith Carder (28:35)

pops on and makes that noise out of nowhere. Every like 10 minutes or so, I lose it. And I like, I’ve trained my whole family to shut that laundry room door, but they don’t always do it. And like somehow when I have a playlist going or white noise or something like that, I stay more regulated because it doesn’t take much, especially when we are hyper-focused or if it’s just taken us so long to like get our focus in the first place, it can be really anger inducing to have to be brought out of that.

JoAnn Crohn (29:06)

We really have a common thread here of anger inducing. But I think it’s hard for women to admit that because we’re not supposed to be angry. And so we just try to stuff it down and stuff it down. And I’m guessing it’s really not doing us any good to stuff it down. Yet we have like this little like, it’s called the zone of tolerance. It’s so little. Crazy. And it’s funny at Meredith, because like, I’m in a time right now where I feel like I am

JoAnn Crohn (29:35)

I’m in burnout, just not being able to handle a lot of stressors. And you talk about being in community and I do notice that anytime I’m around people, my burnout lifts and I feel like motivated again and I feel willing to like participate in things again. But then when I’m alone, I’m like, okay, what’s, I can’t get myself aroused to do the thing.

Meredith Carder (29:55)

Mm-hmm.

JoAnn Crohn (29:56)

Yeah, totally relate, totally relate. Meredith, this has been so amazing and all of the stuff you’ve shared, like I’m gonna be taking into the rest of my day. We like to ask this question of everyone who comes on the podcast, what is something coming up for you that you are excited about?

Meredith Carder (30:11)

Well, speaking of podcast, I am in development of a podcast with a fellow ADHD coach and advocate. His name is Ron Capalbo. We will be doing a in-person podcast, which is a really fun, interesting challenge for us because I’m not a techie person, but we’re very excited to get that going. Hopefully launching by November, but he and I both have ADHD, so we’re going to give ourselves some patience if we don’t meet that timeline.

Yeah, I’m really excited to really dive into that. It’s going to be called Daydream Achievers. And we really want to give space to have these conversations about getting back to those daydreams that we were told as kids to stop having, helping people explore their interests again and kind of rewrite their narratives. So I can’t wait for that to launch hopefully soon.

JoAnn Crohn (31:04)

As a fellow daydreamer, I look forward to it. Thank you, Meredith, so much for joining us today. remember, you listening out there, be very, very kind to yourself, especially if you identify as having ADHD as well. We hope a lot of the things we talked about today resonated with you. And you may have had the like ding, ding, ding, where you’re like, my gosh, this is me. Like Bri and I had so many times during this episode. So remember, the best mom is a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker (31:34)

Thanks for stopping by.

JoAnn Crohn (31:38)

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