Podcast Episode 402: Is Your Kid Forgetful—or Just Being a Kid? Executive Function Decoded Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

JoAnn Crohn (00:00)

Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I’m your host JoAnn Crohn joined here by the brilliant Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker (00:08)

Hello everybody, how are you?

JoAnn Crohn (00:09)

We get to talk about a fascinating topic today because it’s all about executive functioning. And here at No Guilt Mom, I know we get a lot of questions from parents like, should my six-year-old be able to do chores by themselves? Should I be able to expect my eight-year-old to go to the kitchen table and do homework? So we’re talking about all those expectations, and I think I love this.

Brie Tucker (00:32)

Yeah, because I think that it’s one of those things that we forget sometimes that kids don’t have that area of their brain. It’s just not developed. So no matter how much you try to let your kid practice it, you can’t beat out biology, biology.

JoAnn Crohn (00:49)

Biology. Development.

Brie Tucker (00:53)

Yes, my gosh, you wouldn’t even know that I had a background in child development. But yeah, and even I get caught up in that with my team. Because they articulate something so well, and they can regurgitate to you what they’re supposed to know. Their brain just doesn’t work that way. And I find out that’ll make me blow my lid and get upset because I’m like, you know better, why are you doing this? ⁓

JoAnn Crohn (01:17)

They don’t know better.

They don’t. So here to help us unpack this is our guest today, Tori Cordiano. She holds a PhD and is a licensed clinical psychologist and co-director of Laurel Center for Research on Girls in Shaker Heights. She translates research into real life to support families with guidance grounded in child development and solutions that are practical and sustainable. And with that, let’s get on with the show.

Welcome to the podcast, Tori. We are so excited to have you here and dig more into executive functioning.

Tori Cordiano (01:56)

Thank you for having me. I’m so excited to join you both.

JoAnn Crohn (01:59)

This is such a fascinating topic for me and Brie because we get a lot of questions from our community about this and from our balance members about it as well. But first, we were talking a little bit before the episode about your background and how you said that you went to college originally to become a pediatrician, but then decided to change.

Tori Cordiano (02:17)

Yes, I was sure that I was going to be a pediatrician. I love science. I love kids. I thought this is the ideal path. I think I could have been really happy doing that. And then I took a couple of psychology courses, and I realized, this is much more interesting. I’m fascinated, endlessly curious about people’s stories. I wanted to be able to spend more time with kids and families. And so child psychology became a really natural fit for my career.

JoAnn Crohn (02:43)

experience with psychology in school too. I just took a few classes though because I had convinced myself that I didn’t want to become a therapist but I was like I should have majored in psychology looking back and should have changed to that because this is all I do now.

Brie Tucker (02:58)

With that being said, I did major in psychology. I majored in rehab psychology. like working with rehabilitation. And I was certain as you both were and where you guys were at, like I was like, I do not want to work with kids. don’t care for kids. They’re just not my thing. They’re not my jam. So not a single child development class in my undergrad because it was all on adult psychology. And then the end of college, I had an internship.

worked with kids, fell in love with them, completely changed my work trajectory. And now it’s all kids that I work with. And there’s so much fun.

Tori Cordiano (03:36)

They’re the best, yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (03:38)

They’re so much fun. Well, let’s first start this by defining what executive functioning is, because I feel like it’s a buzzword that’s thrown around a lot. And starting with a specific definition, I think will help everybody out there.

Tori Cordiano (03:53)

It’s definitely a buzzy topic. So when we think about executive functions, we are thinking about these goal-directed behaviors, and they are mostly orchestrated by the prefrontal cortex. There’s other parts of the brain involved as well, but prefrontal cortex is really the driver, and that’s that part of the brain up here above the forehead. It is the last part of the brain to develop. So all throughout childhood, all throughout adolescence, kids, teenagers are working with an underdeveloped set of executive functioning skills

Naturally, that’s where everyone is supposed to be. When we think about executive functions, there’s a lot of skills that get sort of thrown under that umbrella, but researchers generally consider three sort of core executive functioning skills. And those include working memory, cognitive flexibility, and inhibitory control.

JoAnn Crohn (04:43)

⁓

Brie Tucker (04:43)

The three things my team does not have.

Tori Cordiano (04:47)

Yours and everybody else’s. I know!

Brie Tucker (04:49)

They think they do, don’t they? JoAnn?

JoAnn Crohn (04:51)

They think they do. Let’s break it down a little bit more for everybody. Like working memory. What is an example we see in kids that shows that they do not have a fully formed working memory yet?

Tori Cordiano (05:02)

So the best example of working memory is before we could share contacts and you would get somebody’s phone number and you had to repeat it over and over until you could write it down. That was your working memory in action. So it’s essentially a mental post-it. It is taking information, holding it in short-term memory and doing something with it. So if you think about the course of a kid’s day, they are following directions. They are remembering sets of instructions.

If they are reading, they’re reading a passage, they’re holding on to information from the beginning to put it together with the end. It shows up in math problems. It shows up in just completing tasks. You can’t escape it. It’s there all day long.

JoAnn Crohn (05:40)

So like when you have a second grader reading a passage and they go and they have to answer questions in a book and maybe they’re having a little bit of trouble with it, it would be something having to do with working memory.

Tori Cordiano (05:51)

Yep, there’s definitely a working memory component there, yes.

JoAnn Crohn (05:54)

Interesting. And then what is cognitive flexibility?

Tori Cordiano (05:58)

Yeah. So cognitive flexibility is our ability to shift and adapt and adjust to things that aren’t going the way that we expect them to. So I always picture Ross with the couch and the friends yelling, pivot, pivot. So that is cognitive flexibility. You’re supposed to do this project. It requires poster board. It’s 930 at night. There’s no poster board. So you have to come up with plan B. You don’t have the materials. You misinterpreted the directions. You’re getting a late start. The plans change.

It also involves things like transitions. So when kids have to stop doing one thing and shift to something else, cognitive flexibility or cognitive shifting is incorporated there as well.

Brie Tucker (06:38)

I think of quite a few adults that don’t have that.

Tori Cordiano (06:41)

It’s a hard one. Yeah.

Brie Tucker (06:43)

Brie doesn’t care for shifting too much. ⁓ My nickname is don’t move my cheese Brie. I can shift, but I have to prepare myself for it.

JoAnn Crohn (06:47)

That’s true. 

She’s come a long way. ⁓ What about that third one, Tori, inhibitory control?

Tori Cordiano (07:00)

Yep. So inhibitory control also sometimes is called impulse control, self-control. This is one that younger kids are notoriously pretty weak at. So it’s that idea of resisting impulses, not snatching the thing that’s in front of you. As we get older, resisting distractions, keeping ourselves from picking up our phone and checking it when we’re supposed to be doing something else, staying on task, resisting talking to your friend who’s sitting next to you in class. That’s where inhibitory control plays out.

Brie Tucker (07:32)

Brie’s feeling like she needs to work on throwing her executive functioning skills

Tori Cordiano (07:35)

We all do! ⁓

JoAnn Crohn (07:38)

So when you mention all of these things, the first thing that pops into my mind is kids who have ADHD. So there is a connection there between ADHD and executive control.

Tori Cordiano (07:45)

Yes.

Yes. So most people who have ADHD, kids and adults, struggle with some aspects of executive functioning. Not all of them and not all people, but most people who have that diagnosis, one or more of these are challenging for them. But the inverse is not true. So people can struggle with executive functioning and not have ADHD. It’s associated with other clinical conditions, things like clinical anxiety or depression.

But it also comes up when you’re not getting enough sleep, when you have too much going on, when you’re being pulled in multiple directions, or there’s a lot of stress in the environment. All of these can affect executive functioning.

JoAnn Crohn (08:29)

For everybody out there. Brie was holding up her fingers and counting on each one.

Brie Tucker (08:34)

Because my other hand is holding my pen to write notes. I’m like, ⁓ god, that’s a lot of checks for Brie

JoAnn Crohn (08:42)

So this is really a problem for adults and for kids in dealing with executive function. What do we do? Would we realize that, okay, this is an executive functioning problem. Say, let’s start with mom first, because you always need as the adult to be aware of your own processes before you teach them to your kids. If you figure like, Brie, who has been holding herself up as an example, Brie, give us an example that you may be struggling with.

Brie Tucker (09:10)

Gosh, okay. Well, the trying not to interrupt things, getting distracted all the time. I have a very hard time focusing on a task that I don’t find fun and interesting. I kind of say like the adulting part is like, I hate the budget. I’m just not going to budget. It just sucks.

Tori Cordiano (09:28)

Right, yes. So moms and parents are holding so much when it comes to executive functioning, right? Because we are, know, if we think of executive functions as sort of like the CEO of the brain, moms are often the CEO of the family, sort of organizing, orchestrating everything. So parents, that primary caregiver, they’re holding a lot when it comes to executive functioning. And it’s helpful to remember that no one, no human, we are not robots, no human has perfect executive functioning. It will fail us.

JoAnn Crohn (09:30)

Right?

Tori Cordiano (09:57)

There will be falls that drop there will be things that fall through the cracks that we forget executive functions are not by design a Complete safety net right there will be things that get compromised and especially if we are adding on periods of stress reduced sleep These are times where it may be more compromised than others.

JoAnn Crohn (10:16)

Yeah, I see that. I see that in myself as well as my kids. something that I want to address right after this break is those behaviors you were talking about, especially the inhibitory control, those are behaviors that kids usually get in quote unquote trouble for in school. So I want to talk about how to respond to that right after this.

So I used to be a fifth grade teacher. And when I was in the classroom, there were certain behaviors I would allow with my students because I would know that they were, you know, things with executive control that not all kids had really buttoned down as well as adults. Other teachers in the building had other ideas about this. And frequently the kids would get in trouble for doing things like interrupting class or talking without raising their hand or grabbing something that they’re not supposed to grab as a teacher and then seeing how like other parents dealt with this when you were told their kids this. It’s difficult watching because kids don’t deserve to get in trouble for a skill that they don’t have right now in their brains. So my question is how as adults should we approach these issues? Say if we’re being told our kid is having these issues during

and interrupting and what’s the first thing we can do.

Tori Cordiano (11:41)

Yeah. So if we’re thinking about it from the parent lens, if you’re getting that feedback about your child in class, to go in curiously and get some more information, right? To assess, does this match up with what you see with your child at home? What are the situations where this is coming up? So for example, we talked a little bit about anxiety before. If this is your child is having the most difficult time with executive functioning, sitting still, interrupting at the start of the day.

Is that separation piece of going to school and getting settled for the day, is that challenging for them? So the more information we have about where the challenges are coming up, the better equipped we are to problem solve with the teacher or with the team involved to get what this child needs in terms of support. It’s also helpful for everybody working with kids to keep developmentally fair expectations in mind. You mentioned that you were a fifth grade teacher.

So what fifth graders can do is very different than what first or second graders can do. It’s also very different than what we can expect of 11th graders. We can expect a group of 10-year-olds to be able to sit for a decent amount of time and listen in a conversation and wait to take their turn to answer. We can’t really expect the same thing of six-year-olds. They need to wiggle. They need to get up and move. They are going to speak over each other. And it can be interpreted as a sign of rudeness or disrespect.

And it actually may be they’re just so excited to share what they know and to join the conversation.

JoAnn Crohn (13:07)

Yeah, I would see this in fifth graders too all the time. Like one of the rules in our school was to walk quietly in a single file line down the hallway. And this was something that was put on by the school principal and the teachers would kind of get reprimanded if their classes were noisy. And I never tried to follow that rule because I’m just like, this isn’t possible. I have kids of varying backgrounds. you know, like I was in a title one school, so they were dealing with a lot of issues outside of school as well. And to expect them to have all of them.

to have the control to walk quietly down the hallway. It was just not possible and not worth my time and their energy.

Tori Cordiano (13:47)

Exactly, right. Felt like a losing battle. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (13:49)

I felt like a losing battle. So I see this a lot with parents in the home and chores. There is a lot of expectations about what kids should be able to do in terms of like contributing to the house and picking up after themselves. Let’s start with just the picking up after themselves because this is something that I see in my own house with socks, like just leaving socks around the house.

Or in the pantry, it’s leaving an empty bag in the pantry after you’ve taken out the last granola bar or the last scone. Or the cereal box. Yeah.

Tori Cordiano (14:24)

empty cereal bar.

Brie Tucker (14:28)

like this is my house, the juice container or even better, the light for replacing the filter on the fridge has been red for like a week. Nobody told me, nobody was like, how am I the only one that notices everything?

JoAnn Crohn (14:47)

So does this have to do with the kids capabilities? Like, is this fair for us to expect kids to be able to do these things like pick up or throw empty bags?

Tori Cordiano (14:56)

Yes and no, right? So if we think about what is important in terms of family life, it actually is important for every member of the family, young kids to teenagers to parents, to feel like they are contributing to the goals of the family, that we are living together, that we you know, we’re keeping picking up after ourselves, we are doing our part, that we are a team, right? That’s good for families to feel that way. What is true is that that is going to look different at different ages and even with different kids.

So if you have multiple kids, your first may have been able to notice the empty boxes or get his socks to the hamper. Your second may not. Not every child is the same. Developmentally, they can look different at different ages, different kids struggle and have different strengths and challenges when it comes to executive functioning. So if you’re noticing time and time again that the expectations aren’t being met, it’s worth thinking about where do we start with what they can do, right? Maybe they’re not noticing the socks that they’re taking off right before bed. But we can start with when you’re done with your dishes, walk them directly to the sink, right? I’m usually there. I can remind you if you don’t do it. There’s some cleaning up that is happening, something they can take ownership of, and then we can build that to other skills that they can manage.

JoAnn Crohn (16:12)

So start with where they are. I think that is such a good piece of practical advice. Not starting from the ideal of where you want them to be, but looking to see, how could we build upon what they already know and what they already do?

Tori Cordiano (16:27)

Yes, yeah, and scaffolding those skills. helps them to feel a sense of satisfaction that they have done something and it helps you from banging your head against the wall feeling like they’re never going to get any of this.

Brie Tucker (16:37)

Right.

And feeling like your kid is the only one that is struggling to keep up when really it’s just because you might have different expectations.

Tori Cordiano (16:46)

Absolutely.

JoAnn Crohn (16:47)

shifting to that same thing, but having to do with adults, because I know this would be a question in many of our No Guilt Mom community members’ heads, the noticing thing. When you’re dealing with, let’s say, you know, men get a bad rap and have a certain reputation for not noticing things that need to be done around the house. How, like, as we’re working on our own executive functioning, and maybe we have a partner who doesn’t notice those things as well, What’s the best way to approach that situation in terms of this executive functioning umbrella?

Tori Cordiano (17:18)

Yeah, I love that. So I think one thing to consider is when you want to have these conversations. And probably the moment to have the conversation is not when it’s the 10th thing that you have noticed that day and your emotional temperature is already running kind of hot. You can clock it. You can even say, I’m feeling really frustrated about this. I’d like to talk about this later on. So then you can have the conversation. And I think the words that you just used to describe it.

I feel like I’m the one that is noticing all of the things that need to happen. It feels like an extra weight that I’m carrying. How do we balance this out? How do we feel like we are holding each other accountable for the jobs that are ours? And sometimes that means delegating that I’m going to be in charge of noticing when we’re running low on the materials that we used to make lunches.

And you’re in charge of noticing when the red light is on that we have to change the filter for the fridge, right? It can get pretty granular and start with some things that feel like I’m taking part of this off of my plate. And in what parts of it are you taking ownership for and taking over?

JoAnn Crohn (18:20)

I love that. The filter thing just is so funny.

Brie Tucker (18:24)

Is it just me then? Am I the only one that has that? no.

JoAnn Crohn (18:27)

I see the filter, but I ignore it.

Brie Tucker (18:31)

It’s crazy. It’s not like it’s a new thing. My family has had filters on fridges for their entire life. Yet I am still the only one that notices it. But with that being said, Dr. Tori, I have never brought it up to them to notice it. And I need to bring that up because I bet they are thinking, well, she’s fine with fixing it herself. She never complains. She scowls while she does it.

JoAnn Crohn (18:55)

And they’re like, this is not a right now problem. I have other things on my mind. I clock it. I see it, but it’s not a right now problem.

Brie Tucker (19:02)

Every tween and teen loves to say, “well, that sounds like a you problem, Mom.”⁓

JoAnn Crohn (19:07)

my gosh. ⁓ No that is not okay.

Tori Cordiano (19:14)

It’s a whole family issue. ⁓

JoAnn Crohn (19:16)

A whole family issue. Well, we talked about one strategy that we could use that start with where they are to build that capability. Right at the break, I want to hear what other strategies parents can use to help their kids in the executive functioning.

Okay, so we have our kids, we want them to be mentally strong, we want them to improve in these aspects of executive function while not, you know, expecting too much of them. What is a strategy that we can use as a parent to help them in that?

Tori Cordiano (19:49)

I think of this of a framework. And so the framework that I use when I’m talking with families about this is thinking about like the three P’s. So we have what we do in the prep, what we do in the present moment, and what we do in the post. And you don’t even necessarily need to share it with your kids in that way, because if they’re over the age of like nine, you’re just going to get an eye roll. But as parents, we can sort of hold on to that framework and help us remember that there are things that we can do in advance to make executive functioning run a little bit smoother.

So these include things like predictable, consistent routines, modeling flexibility, keeping good habits that support executive functioning, like making sure people are getting enough sleep, making sure that we’re not piling way too much on everybody’s schedule so that there’s not a chance of meeting the goals. So that’s like the prep work that is happening. Then we think about what do we do in that present moment? But maybe there’s more on the prep that we want to talk about first.

Brie Tucker (20:45)

Well, I was wondering, like on the prep part, it’s September. Most of us have our kids going back to school right now. So what are some things that we could do to prep to make sure that our, I have to admit you blew my mind earlier in the episode when you talked about like, if you’ve got a crazy morning, maybe there’s some separation anxiety going on. never once thought of that. I have a freshman in college and a senior in high school, and that has never dawned on me. So like, as you’re prepping for this, and you know that your kid has struggled in the past and probably you have too. What are some things that we can do to help them prep for the new school year to have a successful one and to help build their executive functioning as they need every year?

Tori Cordiano (21:25)

Yes, yeah. I really like doing this collaboratively. And so obviously when kids are a little bit older, they’re much more a part of the conversation. You know, where your 15-year-old is doing her homework, she’s mostly in charge of that. You might be providing some feedback or some suggestions, but she’s mostly driving it as she should be. But even really young kids can help with the conversation of, okay, it’s, you know, second or third grade, you’re going to have some homework this year.

When do you think we want to be trying? Do you want to do it like right when we get home? Do you think you’re going to want a little bit of time to play basketball and then come inside? Let’s try it out. You may have in your mind what you think the best approach will be. And sometimes the schedule dictates it. But we can also think with our kids about what do we want to try? What do we think is going to work best? Same thing around like where you’re doing the homework. Obviously on the couch while the TV is on, not going to be our best bet. But maybe they want to try doing it.

in the dining room while you’re working in the kitchen, as opposed to being right at the kitchen table right next to you. So thinking with your child about what do we want this to look like this year, and then treating it like an experiment. Let’s try this out. Let’s see how this is working. And then we’ll touch base at the end of the week and see if we want to mix it up or keep going with the system that we’ve got.

JoAnn Crohn (22:37)

Absolutely.

This is like so in line with what we suggest to parents as well. We have a course called homework 911, which like works with kids and like works through these executive functioning skills, just like that. Like one of them is pick when you’re going to do your homework. The other one is pick where you’re going to do your homework. And like the when is so interesting because like my daughter wanted to do it right after school. My son wanted to do it in the morning before school, which actually worked for him. And I would have never suggested that.

Brie Tucker (23:08)

Right? And like, I think there’s another piece in there of like, parents being scared that our kid is going to fall flat on their face because we have experience and we saw what they were capable of last year. We know that that’s not going to work for them. But if we keep controlling all of it so tightly, they don’t get the opportunity to work on that. Do they? On the executive functioning and the flexible mindset and all of that.

Tori Cordiano (23:34)

Yes. And that’s a really helpful piece. we think about that prep, the present and the post, that’s the work of the present moment, right? When you see your child falling apart, having forgotten the thing that’s due the next day, our first step as parents is to take a beat, take a breath, and bring it back to that present moment. Because your mind may be snowballing out to, no, what is this going to look like when he’s 18 years old and living on his own? Is he even going to go to class? Right. So to bring yourself back to the moment, take a breath and remind yourself these executive functioning skills are still developing. In this moment, I can provide some support if needed. We can embrace the fact that this might not go well, but the stakes are still pretty low at this moment if we’re talking about one night of math homework. And we can bring it back to that idea that we can then think about how we want to move forward with this. And that’s the work that we can do on the post is that reflection. How do we make changes that help us do it a little bit differently next time?

JoAnn Crohn (24:32)

Yeah, I think that a lot of parents get really caught up in the anxiety of the mess up and not realizing how low stakes it is in elementary school. And when we allow them to have those stakes in elementary school and experience that let down and like setbacks that they’re even more prepared when they get into high school and college to handle those things instead of relying on us as parents.

Tori Cordiano (24:56)

Absolutely. That’s such a good point. And the goal of homework, and I think most teachers would echo this, it’s partly to make sure they’re mastering the content and to give more practice. But a big chunk of it is just you’re remembering to check your planner. You’re remembering to take out the paper. You’re remembering to bring it back the next day or to press the turn in button on your Chromebook. So it’s as much about the executive functioning as it is about the learning and the academic content.

JoAnn Crohn (25:20)

Yeah, practicing it. just like occurred to me right now, like the shifts in parenting that have occurred over the past few decades, the things where parents are becoming even more involved in their kids’ lives. I don’t know if you’ve seen this recent trend of like dorm room redecoration. Yes.

Tori Cordiano (25:35)

Just reading the Atlantic piece around this. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (25:38)

my gosh, like how parents are going into dorm rooms and co-opting that space from kids and making this like thousand dollar makeover. It’s a beautiful room. I’ll give them that. But it’s also taking away those executive functioning tryout periods for our kids. ⁓

Brie Tucker (25:56)

Let’s just say spatial perception alone. Just getting to figure out the Tetris in real life, what fits where. That’s like a big skill, because I can’t even tell you how many times that I’ve had that scenario where like my kids have tried to fit something somewhere where it’s like, are you not looking at it? It is clearly too big for that space. And I know that saying it that way is not helpful either. I’m aware. Yeah. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (26:05)

Right?

Tori Cordiano (26:26)

Without practice, they don’t get there. I think we can recognize, too, as parents, as moms, it comes from the most loving well-intentioned place. We want our kids to have a comfortable space. We want them to not feel stressed when they go to school and they don’t have their homework to turn in. We want them not to have their lunch box sitting on the counter when they’re sitting there at lunchtime feeling hungry. So it comes from a really loving, well-intentioned place. But if we’re able to pause and think a little bit about that long game,

We’re parenting for the long game, right? We want them to develop the skills that they eventually are managing these things on their own. And that does not happen overnight. And it does not happen without practice in mistakes.

JoAnn Crohn (27:05)

Absolutely. It’s so funny. There’s this little thing that goes on here behind the scenes of No Guilt Mom. It just happened yesterday for me. My daughter forgot her laptop at home. And we have frequent discussions with another member of our team who I think she called me out on this too, that we can’t always be rescuing our kids. We can’t drop everything and take them lunch. We can’t bring them things. And so she heard that I pushed a meeting back to bring my daughter her laptop. And she’s like, you would have told me not to do that, JoAnn.

And I’m like, okay. But there’s a thing between letting kids experience like natural consequences, like especially if it happens on a very routine basis. But there’s also the thing about like, hey, like if I can make this happen for you, I will. And I think it’s such a tricky judgment call every time it happens. Like, is there a way that you would approach this? Kid forgets something, bring it to them or not bring it to them.

Tori Cordiano (28:04)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so I think you hit the nail on the head. Our brains like when we can sort things into neat little boxes, like do it or don’t, and we like it to be prescriptive. And the reality is that it’s not, right? So if you’re thinking about, you know, for an example, if your child has her first soccer game after school that day and she’s really been stressed about it and looking forward to it, but, you nervous, and she forgot her bag with her cleats, it would make sense if you can to take that to her, right?

There’s a lot else going on. The stakes feel very high for her. If it feels like you’ve given 10 reminders and she forgot to bring the binder that she needed for school that day, and this is a recurring pattern, and there doesn’t seem to be a lot of caring if it gets there or not, perhaps the natural consequence would be a good teacher in that moment. But the other piece of it that I think is important, and this is directed toward parents, moms, is that we want to offer ourselves a lot of grace for whichever side we fall on this. If we end up taking the item to them, or if we decide, we’re not, or I can’t, I can’t leave my job and do that today. There’s not a right or a wrong. And we can lean back on the fact that there are going to be many other chances to do it differently if we want to, to play around with what it looks like, and to repair it with our child if we feel like, oof, I wish I would have done something differently in that moment.

JoAnn Crohn (29:26)

Yeah, there’s not a right or wrong, I think. And I had such a hard time describing the nuance of why I did what I did. And I think like, you just really helped me there because the stakes were high in the forgetting of the laptop. She held an office in student council, she couldn’t do any of thing of her job if she didn’t have that laptop with her that day. And I’m like, okay, we can we can move it. And it wasn’t too much of an inconvenience on my schedule, nor did it happen recurring.

Brie Tucker (29:53)

I think that’s the key, right? We refer to it, good friend Kara Harvey had shared this term with us. If you’re doing the stop and drop all the time, because either your kids expect it, like, oh gosh, you’re a work at home mom or you’re stay at home mom, so they feel like you could just do whatever for them. And you find yourself, gosh, you know, I wish you’re talking about compartments and you know what I want to ask you, and I know you’re not going to answer this question.

What’s the number of times I can help out my kids before I break their executive functioning and they end up living in my basement for the rest of their lives because they don’t have any life skills?

Tori Cordiano (30:36)

⁓ What’s the point of no return?

Brie Tucker (30:39)

There’s a magic number. could just, oh, I’m at, it’s 20 and I’m at 18. I better slow it down.

JoAnn Crohn (30:44)

Stop now, better stop, pull it back.

Tori Cordiano (30:47)

Right? I will say, if you’re finding that it’s recurring, what probably does need to happen is the conversation or a couple of conversations about how we write the ship. Right? So I love that, the stop and drop. I haven’t heard that. But if that has become your role and they’re starting to depend on it or expect it and you’re feeling frustrated, they’re not developing the skill, it is worth problem solving. And we don’t come into it with lecturing and anger. So again, you’re going to take a beat before you have the conversation.

But we’re thinking about this in terms of collaborative side-by-side problem solving. So kiddo, I know that you are always stressed in the morning. You’re rushing out the door. like three times in the last two weeks, you forgot something that you needed. What are your ideas? How do we make this less stressful? How do we make this a little bit smoother? And they may have some ideas. They may say, maybe if I just put my backpack by the door, right? And maybe in your mom brain, you’re thinking, ⁓ but we have a mud room. And I think it should go there. But maybe we try that.

Right? Like, let’s put it there so that if you are literally tripping on it on your way out the door, you will remember to bring it with you. So some problem solving around how do we make this a little bit smoother is probably in order if it’s a pattern that is recurring.

JoAnn Crohn (31:57)

That is great advice right there. And you said mudroom and I’m like, what’s a mudroom? No, we are in Arizona. We don’t have mudrooms here.

Tori Cordiano (32:05)

⁓

Okay, we’re in Cleveland, so we have mud and snow room.

JoAnn Crohn (32:07)

The mud and snow rooms. yeah, I never had to experience that because we get hot and not hot.

Brie Tucker (32:13)

We’re in our hot era right now.

JoAnn Crohn (32:16)

 In our hot era. So Tori, we like to end every interview this way. What is something in your life that you’re looking forward to right now?

Tori Cordiano (32:25)

Yeah, yeah. So I think I have a couple of things, and they both tie to this idea of back to school, right? So I’m a mom of three. One of my kids is starting high school this year, and I’m just so excited for him to be in this place of more independence and autonomy and exploring the things that are really interesting and engaging to him. So the other side of that, professional side, is that back to school marks a lot of work that I get to do with families around executive functioning.

And in my work, have a virtual course that I developed for parents that is self-paced and video moduled and allows that executive functioning work to get to more families who need this for their kids.

JoAnn Crohn (33:03)

Awesome. alot of families do need this for their kids. Absolutely. all all do. all do. Brie has seven that she did.

Brie Tucker (33:14)

Like I said, I stopped keeping track. I said it kept going,

JoAnn Crohn (33:18)

And just to explain, I was holding up my hands just like Bri was when she was counting off the things she has. As I frequently forget, this is an audio program and not video. Well, thank you, Tori, so much for joining us today. It has been wonderful talking about all things executive function.

Tori Cordiano (33:37)

Thank you both so much for having me.

JoAnn Crohn (33:39)

Yes And for everyone out there, remember the best mom is a happy mom. Take care of you and we will talk with you later.

Brie Tucker (33:46)

Thanks for stopping by.