Podcast Episode 390:  Parenting in a TikTok World: What Moms Need to Know About ADHD & Anxiety Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

JoAnn Crohn (00:00)

Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I’m your host JoAnn Crohn joined here by the brilliant Brie Tucker. 

Brie Tucker (00:08)

Hello, Hello everybody, how are you?

JoAnn Crohn (00:11)

This episode, we’re talking about screen time and we are going to talk about all your worries and anxieties about kids and screen time and also how screen time relates with ADHD and anxiety because that’s a question we have a lot here in our No Guilt Mom community.

Brie Tucker (00:30)

And I feel like I’ve seen an uptick on stuff lately on my feeds online talking about how being on screens is it causing ADHD in everybody’s brain. so even just the information around it is causing anxiety and frustration.

JoAnn Crohn (00:48)

So this podcast is for moms who feel overwhelmed, underappreciated and stuck managing everything for their families. So if this is you know that you’re not alone. And in this conversation today, you’re gonna walk away with doable strategies to reclaim your time, energy and joy by getting a little bit of clarity.

on screen time and how it contributes or how it relates rather, I’d like to use that word to ADHD and anxiety. And helping us do that is Dr. Lisa Damour, author of Untangled, Under Pressure and the Emotional Lives of Teenagers, co-host of the Ask Lisa podcast, New York Times columnist, Inside Out Two Consultant, and the newest masterclass instructor. Lisa has two daughters and is also one of our No Guilt Mom podcast two timers since it’s the second time we’ve had her on. So with that, let’s get on with the show.

Welcome back to the podcast Lisa. As I said before, we even started taping. You calm me down so much. Every time you’re on, I feel like an anxious wreck when I start. And then just you talking just brings me back to calmness. So thank you for that. I’m so excited to have you back.

Dr. Lisa Damour (02:00)

You’re welcome. That is the job of psychologists to help people feel better. So I’m it seems like I’m doing that job for you.

Brie Tucker (02:07)

And to bring forth the calm. I think that’s a very important part of someone that has high anxiety.

JoAnn Crohn (02:13)

Yes. one thing that causes a lot of anxiety among moms in particular is how to manage screen time at home with their kids. There is so much misinformation out there about the effects of screen time and what we need to do with screen time. Just as a broad view.

JoAnn Crohn (02:40)

What does this science say about the effect that screen time has on like ADHD and anxiety? Does it cause it or is it just kind of a contributor?

Dr. Lisa Damour (02:51)

Definitely a contributor at most. And I would even walk it back further from there. So, you know, we’re walking into a conversation about screens that is really, really intense and fraud and loaded and to go with your podcast title, incredibly guilt inducing to parents and needlessly so, needlessly so. So let me start with why you don’t need to worry so much. And then actually let’s talk about what you should be worrying about.

Because I’m not going to say screens are harmless. the current framing of the conversation is so big and so broad that there’s no way for somebody to walk into it without feeling like they have already blown it and damaged their child, which is largely not true. So let’s just start there. Okay. So let me offer a bunch of reassurance. So one thing we do as psychologists is we look at the relative impact of various forces on adolescent mental health.

And you can even put them in a pie chart. And if you create a pie chart of the forces that influence adolescent mental health, social media is a surprisingly small slice of the pie.

JoAnn Crohn (04:02)

⁓ and you wouldn’t expect that based on everything you see.

Dr. Lisa Damour (04:05)

Not based on the headlines, which are like most of the pie. Yeah. Right. And why we know that to be true is that as we’re doing better and better research, the impact of social media and social media and screens are not the same thing. But let’s just, you know, for now, roll those up together is very person specific. Some kids are going to have problems that are exacerbated by screens for sure and may even not have happened, but for screens.

I’m happy to go that far. But that’s a pretty small percentage of kids. What we know is that for most kids, as with most adults, social media is a really mixed bag. It’s fun and it’s lousy simultaneously and often post by post where you’re like, oh, that’s really awesome. Oh, I wish I hadn’t seen that. Oh, that’s really cool. Right? Yeah. So those don’t necessarily cancel out. But the bottom line is it is not this, full-on scourge that’s going to harm your kid the second they lay eyes on it. We just know that is not true.

JoAnn Crohn (05:05)

See, that’s a really nice mic drop moment right there, just to know it’s not true. So like you’re not harming your kids just if they’re on screens or if they’re using social media.

Dr. Lisa Damour (05:15)

No, that in and of itself is not, I’m put in finger quotes, bad parenting. Like that is not, okay. Now, what should you worry about? Right, because in some ways it’s weirdly reassuring if you’re like, well then what should I focus on? Right, how do I know when things are bad? So two things. Number one, what is on the screen? So if your kid is like, I am watching YouTube videos on how to make origami.

And then I’m going to turn over here and I’m going to watch a YouTube video on like this really cool band and an amazing documentary about them. You can relax. You can relax. Right. That’s all screens. We know intuitively that’s all fine for kids. If your kid is looking at porn, 30 seconds of porn. Right. That’s on fire. If your kid is trapped in a social media algorithm.

that is serving up post after post after post about how to lose weight, how to hate certain groups, how to gain more muscle than anyone ever needs, that is a problem. So screens serve up so many things, so many things.

Brie Tucker (06:31)

Can we just acknowledge too that screens serve up so many things, but they’re also as your kids get older, as soon as my kids entered high school, a lot of their work was done online and they had to access to screens. Exactly. At junior high, elementary, they were doing those kazoo or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So they have to have it. We need to learn how to live with this in a way that doesn’t traumatize.

Dr. Lisa Damour (06:59)

I mean, we are only recording this podcast because screens, Exactly. It’s a tool. It is a tool like any other. You can build things with hammers. You can break things with hammers. I mean, we just need to be realistic about that understanding. So number one, what’s on the screen? Worry about that. The other thing to worry about is whether screens are crowding out things that are critical for healthy development in kids. I can give you a very short, very recognizable list. Here are the things kids definitely, definitely need to grow and thrive and that screens can get in the way of. Number one, and also number one, and another number one, sleep. Yeah. Also sleep and also sleep.

JoAnn Crohn (07:43)

That is such a hard thing, especially with teenagers.

Dr. Lisa Damour (07:46)

It is huge and it is hard. And I will tell you, I am the mother of a 21 year old and a 14 year old. I am very flexible because I have seen it all. am very like, you know, I’m like the pediatrician who’s like, yeah, you’re fine. you’re like, I’ve seen it all. The hill I die on, and I’ve died on and I will go back to it again. We do not allow screens in bedrooms in my house. Okay. This is a very easy rule to set up.

When kids are first getting screens, they have no problem. They want that phone so bad, they will agree to anything. So you can be like, you know what, never goes above the first floor if you have a two-floor house with bedrooms. Kids are great with that. That rule alone goes so far to maintain healthy relationships with screens. Now I’m sure some of your listeners are like, lady, that ship has sailed. Okay. Well then it doesn’t need to be, right? Fine. Fine.

Brie Tucker (08:33)

I’m there. I’m already past the international dateline. I’m an international water

Dr. Lisa Damour (08:38)

Right, okay. Then the next question is, it need to be in their room when they’re supposed to be asleep? Right? True that. Right? And also, is it in your room when you’re supposed to be asleep, right? Is there a new family rule that can be made just like for the health and mental health and physical health of everybody, we get them all out of our rooms overnight? That’s another option. If you’re like, okay, it would still be Armageddon in my house if I tried to get it out of my kid’s room, then the next question is, is it a problem? Yeah. There are plenty of teenagers, I adore teenagers, who operate like 50 year old librarians with their phone, right? Like they are like putting it on nude, not disturbed. They’re using it to listen to a little music to fall asleep. It helps them fall asleep. They do not wake up again until the alarm goes off in the morning. If this is your kid, do not blow up your relationship with your kid about getting the phone out of the room. If your kid is like coming out groggy and you can tell they were up at 2 a.m.

JoAnn Crohn (09:26)

I think yes.

Dr. Lisa Damour (09:32)

now you have a conversation, you actually have leverage, have facts, you have reality to work with. Okay, so that’s a long treatise on sleep because it is just so critically important.

JoAnn Crohn (09:43)

It’s so important. And I have to say that as a mom, like my kids do have their phones in their bedrooms. However, it has been a huge conversational, ongoing conversation that we’ve had about screen time and mental health and sleep. And so the way they use their phones is kind of like the 50 year old woman. Now that my daughter’s a senior in high school, she is taking on more and more responsibility for it because I know she’s going to be out of the house. And we’re seeing those behaviors again, where she’s just here.

on TikTok on her screen and she’s not falling asleep. And so we’re bringing it up again, hey, how can I help you because you’re not getting much sleep.

Dr. Lisa Damour (10:20)

This is parenting.

JoAnn Crohn (10:21)

Yeah, it’s parenting. ⁓

Dr. Lisa Damour (10:24)

This has always been parenting where you’re like, here’s a rule and the kid’s like, yep, I get it. And then the kid pushes it and you’re like, all right, now we’re revisiting it. Now we’re walking it back. I mean, like, this is just ban in the mix of parenting.

JoAnn Crohn (10:35)

Absolutely.

Brie Tucker (10:36)

I think you brought up a really great point. Can I just hammer that one a little more? It’s okay to change the rules when they no longer are useful or beneficial to your family.

Dr. Lisa Damour (10:46)

100 % right? mean, what? Yeah, you might have to walk it back, right? I mean, it’s like our own parents are like, you can have a curfew at midnight. Okay, apparently you need a curfew at 11pm. Like, right? mean, this is not new, right? This is not new to parenting. It’s just that we didn’t have it. So it freaks us out. That’s the deal with social media and technology. True.

Brie Tucker (10:48)

Right after walk.

JoAnn Crohn (10:56)

Exactly.

So you mentioned that one of the things interfering, the healthy development, sleep. And I want to hear those next ones right after this break. Before the break, Lisa, you talked about one of the essentials for healthy development is sleep.

Brie Tucker (11:20)

and sleep and sleep.

JoAnn Crohn (11:22)

Yes, and sleep and sleep. What else is essential that screen time might be interfering with that we need to our eyes on?

Dr. Lisa Damour (11:29)

So it shouldn’t interfere with in real life interactions, right? One of the reasons I don’t like kids having their phones in their room is they will hold up in their room and they have no reason to leave their room and just be there with the whole internet by themselves indefinitely. Screens should not get in the way of looking people in the eye, having conversations, having friends over, coming to dinner, being part of the family. Number three, screens should not get in the way of physical activity. Kids should not be so sedentary because of screens that they’re not getting all of the movement that they need and their bodies deserve.

Number four, they shouldn’t get in the way of focused studying. This is really hard because so often they are on screens to do it. So I will say, there’s no shame in helping kids do things like set timers for a period of focused work. And then, you know, after 20 minutes, 20 minutes is a long time to actually work in a plenty for effective work, taking minutes to look at TikTok if you want to, right? And then coming back for another 20 minutes. Like that is totally fine. It’s how I write all my books.

Brie Tucker (12:34)

I was gonna say like as an adult, I have that. Not right, like we work online. We’re doing this podcast because we have screens. I have a hard time.

JoAnn Crohn (12:37)

I always have to put myself on a timer when I’m doing focus tasks. And my 16 year old daughter locks herself in the bathroom when she has to do a focus task to see away from her phone.

Dr. Lisa Damour (12:54)

I mean, the difference between success and not success is not willpower. It’s having the best strategies to get the work done when you are absolutely right. It’s not about willpower. And this is actually just has to be said. The algorithms that we are all up against have literally millions, not billions of data points to work from to put in front of us irresistible content.

So the kid who can’t stop looking at it, the adult who can’t stop looking at it, this is not about character, this is not about willpower, this is about a fight that is not fair, right? It is all of Silicon Valley versus Oz. So don’t shame kids about being addicted to their phones, right? Like, of course they are. That’s what’s being done to them by unregulated bad actors. I just think.

Brie Tucker (13:45)

I love that, like that unregulated bad act.

Dr. Lisa Damour (13:47)

I mean, it’s like taking off on teenagers is like a very popular sport. It is a really crummy thing to do in the context of talking about digital technology, because the adults are not putting guardrails around this that anyone in my field would say 100 % you should have guardrails on this like and it should be done at a governmental level. I mean, this is like bananas, right? So and then the last thing I would say, the fifth thing I would say is like being useful, being useful.

Dr. Lisa Damour (14:15)

Helping out around the house, helping out around the community, having jobs, having chores. Okay, families can add on from there, right? Maybe religious life is important to your family and you want to make sure that that is carved out and protected. You know, maybe time and nature is important to your family. But my top five are sleep, in-person interactions, physical activity, studying with focus and making oneself useful to others.

JoAnn Crohn (14:39)

I think those are great things to keep in mind, especially for all the parents out there who are worried about screen time affecting their kids’ lives, but not actually having this defined way that it’s affected. This helps a lot seeing like, is it affecting these things? Yes or no? The thing that I see a lot on elementary school parents forums, all those WhatsApp group chats that we have as parents, is this concern about getting kids their first phone.

And there’s a certain amount of shaming that goes on in the parental community because one parent will be like, my kid has a phone. And the other one’s like, I would never let my child have a phone. So what is your advice for getting kids their first phones?

Dr. Lisa Damour (15:21)

Okay, so there’s a couple of things that will come into the mix. Number one is, do you want your kid to have a phone? So let me just say right here, right now, there are a lot of parents who are like, I am ready for my kid to have a phone and maybe even a smartphone for reasons that are entirely practical. They are waiting for a bus that is highly unreliable and I want them to be able to text me. Or I will feel more comfortable saying they can walk down to their friend’s house if I can watch them as they go. Right, so I think.

It’s so often, this is characterized as like the teenager is like, give me a phone, give me a phone. Hello. A lot of parents are like, it will make our family life smoother. It will give you more freedom and more autonomy if you have a phone. So one question is, do you want your kid to have a phone? That is a reasonable reason to start to walk into this neighborhood. The other reason is your kid is asking for a phone, right? Now in most communities, there will come a time and it’s very regional.

where kids start making plans by text. And fifth grade, would say, was kind of like, but I could say it like the modal, the most common I hear, fifth or sixth grade, you know, some parts of the country earlier, some parts of the country later. And the way we want to think about it is that you are now living in a tension, you know, this tough tension to live in, which is social media, digital technology can have downsides for kids. Social isolation also has downsides for kids. We’ve measured this for years.

So the way I did it with my kids and people can make their own choices, but I will give you how I did it with my kids. I said, I don’t think you need access to texting until you are not able to stay connected to the social activity of your friends without it. And there does come a time where kids start making plans. And if you are not accessible by text, you’re not included in those plans. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (17:11)

I’ve seen that happen on my kids.

Dr. Lisa Damour (17:13)

And it’s not because kids are jerks, it’s because they are kids and they’re not like, and somebody needs to call their landline or something. They’re not going to do it.

JoAnn Crohn (17:21)

We adults don’t do it. I mean, if somebody calls me, I’m like, nope. Not answering that text me instead.

Dr. Lisa Damour (17:28)

Yeah, the time will come where the kid is like, I can’t see my friends because I don’t know what’s happening because I’m not accessible by text. That is your moment. That is your moment. That’s when you say, okay, I might be open to texting. Now, the beautiful thing about this is you can make all the rules right here right now. You can say, you will get a device, it never goes in your room, the kid will be like 100%. You got it. You will get a device that you know, like

put all of the rules you want around it. It will have no social media apps. You can give a kid a smartphone. I’ve done it twice. No social media apps, no capacity to download apps without your permission. I also don’t give them a browser. We talk about social media. We don’t put lot of browsers, right? Kids see porn on browsers. Kids don’t need browsers. They need texting and they need music.

The number one way that kids regulate their emotions is by listening to music. This is beautiful. This is wonderful. This is highly adaptive. They do it over their phones. So what I would say is you just go really slow. Start with texting. To me, texting is like JV social media. If your kid texts like a 40 year old librarian or the other thing they do is they just send like inscrutable but actually benign memes, like a lot of them. Right. Like that’s a lot of them.

JoAnn Crohn (18:44)

There’s so many of them ⁓

Brie Tucker (18:45)

JoAnn’s like, I got a sixth grader. happens. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Damour (18:47)

i don’t get it, i it looks like- but it’s not harmful, but i don’t get it, that’s cra-

JoAnn Crohn (18:47)

Yeah, and they’re laughing and they show it to you and they’re like, you’re like, okay. ⁓ I know

Brie Tucker (18:59)

She gets so mad when she shows me a meme and I don’t find the humor in it.

Dr. Lisa Damour (19:03)

But they’re happy and they’re happy and it’s harmless, right? There’s nothing bad happening here. If that’s your kid, when the time comes that they ask for social media and will come to how you make that decision, you can feel better about it because you’re like, I see how you operate on texting. I see what this is about for you. If your kid gets texting and very quickly is into like the meanest text thread ever or is sending mean texts, do not give that kid social media. You should probably take back their texting, right?

We can do this gradually. And it’s what you said earlier. You give a little and sometimes you have to walk it back. But you don’t have to hand over a fully loaded browser and any social media apps. You want phone all at once. The time will come. And I’ve said this to my kids, when the conversation moves over to Snap or Insta for what’s happening and where. And I have said to both of them and it worked fine so far with both of them.

When that day comes, let me know and we will see how you have handled yourself on texting. We will see if I feel comfortable with you moving over to a social media app, which is vastly more complex than texting. And if you’re like, okay, you have handled yourself well, you have been a model citizen, then I think you just have a few more conversations about like, now you’re going to meet some algorithms that do not have your best interests at heart. And yeah.

This is, you there’s going to be some pretty lousy stuff that is going to come into your feed and I’m here talk with you about it. I also am expecting you to zip right past it, do everything you can to keep your algorithm on the, you know, adorable cat side, the carpet cleaning video side, which teenagers love, like whatever it is.

Brie Tucker (20:38)

ASMR.

JoAnn Crohn (20:40)

ASMR. Yeah, it’s crazy.

Dr. Lisa Damour (20:42)

So have that conversation. And I will just say, you know, I hate the algorithms. I hate the algorithms. I feel like they are so dangerous because they can serve up stuff at volume, right? It’s one thing to see one image of a super thin kid. It’s another thing to see a thousand. Like they make me really uncomfortable. So you need to be in conversation with kids. That said, it’s not that kids haven’t seen inappropriate content until this generation came around. I mean, think of the stuff you went over to your friend’s house, especially if they had cable, right?

JoAnn Crohn (21:11) 

No, one of my friends like her dad had Playboy magazine. I was gonna say that was the thing of our generation

Brie Tucker (21:17)

remember?

Dr. Lisa Damour (21:19)

I remember watching like just incredibly raunchy movies in other kids’ basements, right? I’m 54. This is not new that there’s inappropriate stuff that teenagers are exposed to. And the guardrails are not new. The guardrails are not new. So the guardrails that have always worked for managing risk are two things with teens. One is rules that make sense to the kid, right? So if you’re like, here’s why I don’t want you to have social media. There are bad actors putting…

garbage in front of you, just like you don’t see R-rated movies yet, you don’t go see this. don’t see that. You wait till you’re older so that you can be more skeptical and have it in context and we can talk about it

JoAnn Crohn (21:57)

So what you’ve described, Lisa, is a really gradual release plan of getting your kids first their first phone, what apps to include or not to include there, and then moving over into the social media apps. Coming up next, I want to ask you about how to kind of manage it, what to watch out for when your kids get on social media. And we’ll talk about that right after this. So.

We’ve talked so far about getting kids their first phone and also what to look for with kids and screen time and what screen time may be impeding in terms of normal development. But let’s focus in on these social media platforms because I know my son right now, he’s in seventh grade and he has access to Instagram, which is on my phone too. So I monitor everything that comes in. I could see what algorithm is serving him. I feel comfortable with that. And we’ve had so many conversations regarding that.

He has now asked for TikTok. And the reason is, is he is unaware of all the trends going on that his friends are talking about. And I know this happened with my daughter too. We didn’t let her get TikTok until 15 or 16, because I feel like that is just a different, more intense algorithm than Instagram. But I wanted to hear your thoughts on that.

Dr. Lisa Damour (23:18)

I think that’s probably true, right? mean, and I think, you know, what’s being served is maybe even coming from a wider range of sources, you know, though I will also say, you know, any social media platform can take kids down, adults down, you know, yeah, really, really worry some rabbit holes. I think it’s really great that you have your awareness of how we use his Instagram as a baseline. Yeah. And I think that it really is valuable to

commend him for his healthy use of this, that he has kept himself on the fun side of social media. And like, that’s all you can just say. Like, it’s got a fun side. If you’re hanging out on the fun side, the only thing you have to worry about is your time, right? That you can just keep you there longer than you need to be. then I think you can say, you know, I’m open to TikTok, you know, and maybe you attach it to things like in the fall when you start a new school year, you don’t need it right now because you’re in the middle, you know, like you can sort of think through.

And then you say, and we’re gonna do with TikTok what we do with Instagram, which is I’m gonna be your wing person and we’re gonna do this together. And that gets us to the second guardrail. So the first guardrail is rules that make sense, right? Like we don’t do this cause you’re this age in the same way you don’t go see every single movie at any given age. The second guardrail is a good working relationship with the parent or caregiver. So that when something weird comes across his plate on TikTok or anything, he can be like, I saw this thing and now I am having a little trouble sleeping and he can talk with you about it.

JoAnn Crohn (24:52)

And that has happened. Yes.

Dr. Lisa Damour (24:53)

Okay, okay. When parents blow up their relationship in the rulemaking, kids get on it anyway, but then they don’t feel they can talk with their folks about what they’ve come across. So you got rules, you’ve got a good working relationship, and those two together keep kids as safe as a kid can be kept.

Brie Tucker (25:03)

Exactly.

JoAnn Crohn (25:11)

Yeah, I think that’s a good way to go about it because there is this intense fear among parents that social media will do some irreparable harm to their child, but there’s no like definition of what that harm might be. And from what you’re saying, it’s basically coming across that content that may be questionable, that they don’t know how to handle, and then not being able to talk to their parent about that content to really process it.

I know that also like my son is asking for discord and that’s a big thing in our house right now. My husband who’s on discord frequently, he’s like, I don’t want you on there because it is completely unregulated. It’s even worse than TikTok and Instagram because anyone could come on there and do anything. And that’s a hard conversation to have with him because we can’t be on those servers with him unless we become part of it ourselves.

Dr. Lisa Damour (25:57)

Mm-hmm.

But you said the magic word, is conversation. Right? That this is not just a, we’re the parents, you’re the kid, the answer’s no. It is, listen, we’re really worried about Discord because I’m on it. like, mean, Discord, for example, like the norms around language are really problematic. Kids are, adults are throwing around slurs and incredibly offensive terminology very, very easily. And you could say to a kid, and this is my explanation,

Here’s the thing, norms shape behavior. And they especially actually shape behavior for kids and teenagers. Kids, if they think like, everybody’s doing it, they’re more likely to do it. So if you get on Discord and you hear the N-word 50 times, that’s gonna make that word not seem so alarming to you when it should be entirely alarming to you. And I will tell you, sometimes we have kids who are showing up, know, like thrown around the N-word at school and adults are like, where is this coming from? And you’re like, it’s coming from the fact that they have just heard it a thousand times.

And it feels like an okay thing to say if you hear it that many times. You can have that conversation with a 10 year old. And so that’s like the rules that make sense. So that’s why I don’t want you on Discord. I don’t want those words becoming norm for you. I want them to stay alarming and disturbing to you. And if you hear them too often, they won’t. That’s a rule that makes sense. And then you also have…

because I have not come in loud and heavy with just my flexing my adult authority, then when the kid’s friend is using the term on the playground, he can come home and say, guess who used the N word? And now you’re having a conversation.

JoAnn Crohn (27:46)

I love your definition of that. And like you have just so dialed in exactly what upsets me about Discord that I could then take and talk to my son instead of this being this like kind of like ambiguous fear surrounding it.

Brie Tucker (28:01)

but also

becoming a power struggle. And then it turns into your kid who at one time was open to talking to you. turns into a me versus you. And I saw that happen with my daughter. Like I’m divorced. We have two separate households. She got in trouble for what she wore at the other household. She was asked, you know, what she didn’t want to lose. And she’s like, well, I don’t want to lose my TikTok.

And so they took away her Instagram instead, because they’re like, well, you didn’t say that, so we know you want that one more. And ever since, she won’t talk to those parents about anything anymore, because she felt like…

Dr. Lisa Damour (28:38)

blow up the relationship over this. I mean, the thing is, teenagers are actually very, very rational and reasonable. They just need things to make sense and add up. ⁓ So you can’t just say because I said so anymore. ⁓ Whereas like, you know, like when I talk with adolescents about drugs, I don’t say they’re illegal. And the kids know they’re illegal. Like they also know lots of kids are using and they’ve never seen a cop anywhere near them.

Dr. Lisa Damour (29:07)

I just run down the biology. I’m like, here is why these drugs have been made illegal. This is the impact on your neurological system. This is the impact on your cardiac system. They need and deserve and actually honor facts that are rational and that they can understand as being a good reason for a rule. We owe that to them. And if you give that to them, they’re like, okay, fine. I’ll work with you.

JoAnn Crohn (29:31)

Yeah, as long as it makes sense.

Brie Tucker (29:33)

It’s a part of a pair because as they become teenagers or just in general, our kids become older, we expect them to do more, right? Take on more responsibilities at home, be more self-sufficient and getting dressed and taking care of your schoolwork and staying on top of X, Y, and Z, practicing your instrument, practicing your extracurriculars that you’re doing without me having to be on top of it. but at the same time, I’m not going to give you the respect.

that you’re making good choices.

Dr. Lisa Damour (30:04)

I’m gonna talk to you like a little kid and just be like, because I said so but also you got a Milan and also I need you to take your sister over to you know, her practice.

Brie Tucker (30:11)

They’re not gonna work

Then we wonder why we have a trouble communicating, right? Yeah, it’s not always easy. It’s scary putting that degree of trust that you have raised your child in a way that they will talk to you, that they will be aware when things are going awry. But if we never let them go out and try.

Dr. Lisa Damour (30:35)

Yeah. And teenagers live up to expectations and they live down to expectations.

Brie Tucker (30:41)

I say that all the time. Wherever that bar is set, my kids will go right through the bar

Dr. Lisa Damour (30:44)

They will meet you there. So if you flex on them, they will retaliate.

JoAnn Crohn (30:51)

I’ve seen it.

Dr. Lisa Damour (30:53)

That’s how they’re built. I love them, but that’s their build.

JoAnn Crohn (30:57)

But to tie up this whole discussion about screens and what being a quote unquote good parent means, what is like one actionable step that parents can take after listening to this podcast to help ease their anxiety about being a good parent when it comes to screens?

Dr. Lisa Damour (31:12)

So just do an evaluation. What’s your kid looking at? Are they looking at worrisome things? That is grounds for concern. And then are the five things I mentioned protected? Sleep, in-person time, studying with focus, physical activity being useful. If you feel like, my kid’s doing all those things plenty, I think you can relax. I know another thing that you had wondered about was like, where does anxiety and ADHD come into all of this? What I can tell you is probably the number one way is through sleep.

When kids have not rested, if they have a diagnosis of ADHD, their symptoms are way worse. Just stands to reason. When kids have not rested, they are much more likely to become anxious because rest is part of what helps us to regulate emotions. And you know this, right? If you’ve had a lousy night of sleep and then something goes wrong, like we have a much stronger reaction. So I think you can make the argument that sometimes what’s on a screen can make a kid more anxious or make their attention more fractured.

The easier argument, the much more likely culprit here is the screens are getting in the way of their sleep and then the sleep is exacerbating anxiety and ADHD. Phones don’t cause ADHD. Phones do fracture our attention though. So they can cause sort of like situational attention problems for all of us. But if your kid has an ADHD diagnosis that is a good diagnosis and made by a good clinician, the phone is not to blame.

JoAnn Crohn (32:18)

Yes, yes.

Dr. Lisa Damour (32:38)

You know, this is constitutional. Phones can cause anxiety to the degree that they can, you know, bring us a lot of very distressing information. And that is a problem for all of us, right? To have a news channel in your pocket, especially when headlines can be very, very distressing and there can feel like there’s a lot of upheaval in the world. So I would just be mindful of that and also mindful of the ways in which

Dr. Lisa Damour (33:07)

I really feel for kids today that because of their social media universes, they know all of the things they’re being left out of. And that can leave them feeling anxious. Like, at least we had no idea how not invited to things we were.

JoAnn Crohn (33:19)

Yeah, how I would have dealt with that seeing all the parties going on and I’m like, but yeah, that’s hard.

Dr. Lisa Damour (33:25)

So that’s going to make you anxious, but we can just be really tender and sweet with kids about that.

JoAnn Crohn (33:29)

Yeah. Lisa, tell us about your upcoming master class and what parents can expect to take away from watching the masterclass.

Dr. Lisa Damour (33:36)

Such an honor to get to do this. one of four instructors in a masterclass about parenting and such a delight to work with masterclass. They are really classy, for lack of a better word. Beautifully done, beautifully put together, incredibly fun to watch and learn from. And the class really covers, it’s a very sort of broad and reassuring take on parenting. Everything you’re describing about guilt inducing things out there, anxiety inducing guidance around parents, parenting, like this class is the opposite. It is really designed to help parents feel empowered, to help parents feel that they can trust themselves, to offer sort of broad guidelines for what to focus on, but to really honor that parents know their kids better than anyone’s gonna know their kids, and that there are a million, million ways to get it right as a parent, and just a few things that we wanna be sure to steer clear of.

JoAnn Crohn (34:34)

I love it. I watched a few episodes of it and I am enthralled and it’s interesting and holds your attention through the entire thing.

Brie Tucker (34:42)

But I loved how I felt at the end of it. I felt very empowered and relaxed.

JoAnn Crohn (34:49)

doing the right things. So we like to end every episode this way, Lisa. What is something that’s coming up for you that you’re really excited about?

Dr. Lisa Damour (34:57)

Well, what’s coming up is season six of the Ask Lisa podcast. Rina and I have been at this for a long time. I’m so excited. And we launch a new season on September 2nd. And we are just thrilled. I mean, I’m so excited about what we have in store. you know what I love? The podcast focuses on raising tweens and teens. And the fun thing about tweens and teens is that there’s always timeless stuff for us to address. We answer questions from parents, like, why won’t my kid talk to me?

And then there are timely things. AI companions, zins, and vaping are making a comeback big time. so this new season will address both the timeless and the timely things that make raising tweens and teens kind of bumpy sometimes.

JoAnn Crohn (35:43)

Yes, I love that. That is really exciting. And I hope that you listening right here, you have gained a little bit more clarity and feel a little calmer about your kids using screens and how those screens affect either ADHD or anxiety. As Dr. Lisa put it, it’s probably not the screens. It could be the lack of sleep due to the screen usage. So remember the best mom is a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later. Bye.

Brie Tucker (36:11)

Thanks for stopping by.