Podcast Episode 400: ADHD Shame and Self-Worth: Because Being Late Doesn’t Make You a Bad Mom Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

JoAnn Crohn (00:00)

Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I’m your host JoAnn Crone here with the brilliant Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker (00:06)

Hello, hello everybody how are you? ⁓

JoAnn Crohn (00:09)

Brie, we have something very close to our hearts being discussed today. ADHD.

Brie Tucker (00:15)

we like to call it shiny object syndrome

JoAnn Crohn (00:17)

Yes.

So many women in our community have ADHD or suspect they have ADHD. And it’s really one of those things that it’s branded as a superpower, but it’s not. It’s hard. It’s, it’s just hard to deal with on a daily basis. And it’s a different way of thinking with your mind, but also there’s some shame that exists with that.

Brie Tucker (00:41)

I think there is, and you know what else? You and I are both in this interesting group. And I wonder how many other people out in podcast land are in this group with us, where we have gotten older in our lives. And as we’ve gotten older, we’re like, wait a minute. I think I’ve had ADHD my whole day in life and like no one ever helped. So then you’re you’re looking back at all these like tools that you used and yeah, it does start to cause that shame of like.

Brie Tucker (01:11)

Why did nobody help me? Why do I have this problem? And then, you you feel bad that you have it or don’t have it. Cause like in my case, I can’t get anybody diagnose me. You’re all like, difference does it make? You’re 45. You’ve done well. Like it matters to me.

JoAnn Crohn (01:25)

It does, and it’s like an inner turmoil thing as well. I know a lot of women in their 30s and 40s and 50s are getting diagnosed with ADHD now because it doesn’t present outwardly in women, especially because we’ve learned how to deal with it. We’ve learned how to mask it. But just because it is not a problem for other people in our lives does not mean it’s not a problem for us internally. We are struggling internally. We’re going through this shame spiral. And to help us figure all that out is Rebecca Tolbert. She is the founder of the Harmony Experiment, an ADHD coach and a clinical therapist and writer. She helps women with ADHD build lives that work for them and she lives in the DC area with her two-year-old. So with that, let’s get on with the show.

Rebecca, is a frequent topic on this podcast. So I’ve been so looking forward to this interview because we haven’t really had an ADHD expert on. Well, one, you’re a second.

Rebecca Tolbert (02:23)

Awesome.

Brie Tucker (02:24)

I would say it’s not even a topic discussed as much of the podcast as I would be like, it is a thing that is in our lives 24 seven.

JoAnn Crohn (02:33)

Yeah. So Rebecca, tell us, like, why did you decide to start focusing on ADHD and healthy people?

Rebecca Tolbert (02:41)

I was diagnosed with ADHD. Unlike y’all, like Bri, you were just saying like, I can’t get anybody to diagnose me. Yeah, I actually got a diagnosis in second grade, which is super rare for girls, especially ones that are not particularly hyperactive. I was more of the distracted type. But I have a family history. And so that was helpful in childhood and they me diagnosis. But I still like, you know, all the stuff that I know now, like nobody knew that back then, right? There’s been so much research, there’s so much, there’s so much stuff that is available to us that wasn’t available when I was a kid. And so I just grew up kind of hating how I was different from everybody and just really ashamed and embarrassed of the things that I’m like really bad at. Like I’m really lopsided. I’m like really, really good at some things and I’m like really, really bad at something.

JoAnn Crohn (03:34)

So like tell me tell me the differences

Rebecca Tolbert (03:37)

Yeah, so I would do really well in school, and then just like, forget to turn in my homework, right? So I would finish it, or I forget to turn it in. Or it’s like, I would do long math problems in my head and then forget to like, change the sign from like a plus or minus so that I get the whole thing wrong. And right. And so it’s all of these things. One of the things about ADHD that is so difficult is the gap, right?

It’s the gap between what you know you’re capable of and what you actually accomplish.

JoAnn Crohn (04:15)

I feel like we discuss that gap with Brie every single day.

Brie Tucker (04:22)

Okay, I have to admit when you were talking about the things that you are good and not good at, I immediately went to not good at being on time. That’s me. Everything is all or nothing. If I know I might, I’m definitely one of those people. You got an appointment in five minutes. I just sit here and I don’t do anything for five minutes. Cause otherwise I will think I can do six things and guess who’s going to be late.

Rebecca Tolbert (04:45)

I’ll still be late if I sit there for five minutes. Oh, maybe. I’ll be late sometimes.

Brie Tucker (04:53)

That’s hard.

JoAnn Crohn (04:54)

I figured out a way around that. And I think like what we’re describing here is all of our adaptations that we’ve made to deal with ADHD. Because I was just talking about how there’s this mode on my iPhone that’s reduce interruptions, but I didn’t like it because it took away my Google Calendar notification. Because here’s what I do with that. When that notification goes off, I log in to whatever meeting I’m supposed to be on. So that and I put it on my separate screen. So I could still do stuff. But then something I know that is prominent ADHD people, correct me if I’m wrong, Rebecca, is that you tend to like notice all the little things in your environment so that they tend to be distractions for you. But I’m using that quality in a way that will help me because I notice when I have a meeting, especially in Zoom, it just pops up when that person’s here and I automatically go to my computer and then bam, I’m on time. So being late is a really, really hard thing.

Rebecca Tolbert (05:50)

So do you know why that is? Plus, so, oh man, y’all, I didn’t even answer your first question. This interview is gonna be all over.

JoAnn Crohn (05:53)

Tell me.

Brie Tucker (05:53)

Tell us 

JoAnn Crohn (06:00)

Okay, it’s an ADHD interview. I’m gonna abandon some structure here because I think the people who are listening to this have it themselves and will go with us. They’ll flow with it.

Brie Tucker (06:10)

it as JoAnn has been told whiplash from changing topics, right? ⁓

JoAnn Crohn (06:14)

Yes, that’s what my dad accused me of all the time. I give people whiplash.

Brie Tucker (06:17)

I can follow you. I don’t see the problem. So why does that happen? Why do we notice the little things? Why do they distract us so much? Like I cannot ignore messages popping up. Sounds get me really hard.

Rebecca Tolbert (06:32)

I was just talking to a client about sound sensory sensitivity yesterday. So the ADHD brain is different than a neuro-typical brain. And one of the theories is that essentially we have like hunter brains. There’s hunters, there’s gatherers. We have like hunter brains. So imagine you’re out in the woods, right? You’re absorbing all of the information.

Brie Tucker (06:55)

Okay.

Rebecca Tolbert (07:02)

because that’s actually really adaptive for someone who’s hunting because you know, ⁓ little twigs snapped over there. Let me look over there. Okay, there’s like this, there’s that, there’s this. There’s a really huge benefit to having a brain that does not know how to choose what stimuli is important and what is not important. my God, 

So that’s essentially what’s happening with ADHD brain is that we are open and we cannot regulate or prioritize like a neurotypical brain can just do that automatically. So our brain is just kind of like taking everything in all the time. And then it’s like, well, my brain can’t decide like what is important sensory information and what it’s not. I’m just taking it all in.

JoAnn Crohn (07:50)

doesn’t know what to get into. 

Rebecca Tolbert (07:52)

Yeah, you guys are both like,

JoAnn Crohn (07:54)

 Yeah, yeah. I think of it when I was a teacher and I could keep a pretty controlled classroom because if somebody is doing something out of the norm, I will catch it right away and I will be like, hey, let’s talk about this. But the way it hurt me was I would take small groups back to the back corner and in small groups, you’re supposed to be focused on that group, helping them learn.

JoAnn Crohn (08:16)

every single little thing that was happening in that classroom would draw my attention away from that small group. And as a result, I had a lot of shame that I couldn’t stay focused during that, that I wasn’t a good teacher during that, that I like was doing something wrong because of that. And I think a lot of people get into situations like that who have ADHD with the shame and it comes in.

Rebecca Tolbert (08:40)

Yeah.

Brie Tucker (08:41)

Do you see that a lot, Rebecca? I would think you do.

Rebecca Tolbert (08:44)

Absolutely, too. And I think there’s a couple of reasons why we are particularly prone to, one, experiencing this kind of shame in the first place, and then two, getting like sucked into it and like we can’t get out.

JoAnn Crohn (09:02)

my gosh, and I so want to hear about that right after this. So Rebecca, before the break, we were talking about how that shame happens. So tell us more about that.

Rebecca Tolbert (09:13)

Yeah, so I was saying that there’s like a couple of reasons why we’re more likely to experience it and why we’re more likely to get stuck in it. So let me start with the experiencing it in the first place. Yeah. I want to like nerd out and go really deep, but I don’t know if that’s actually helpful to the listeners. We can ask.

JoAnn Crohn (09:30)

We can ask all the questions and like see if it’s too much. will. Great. We’re good at that.

Brie Tucker (09:36)

We love nerding out. Tell us the science behind all this.

Rebecca Tolbert (09:39)

We’re gonna start with your flyby overview of your stress responses in your nervous system. Okay? Let’s go. So let’s say you’re that hunter gatherer. You’re out there in the woods and you’re picking gooseberries, the paleolithic form of blueberries, right? You’re out here, you got little purple fingers and you hear this noise, you look up and there’s a dire wolf and it’s there and it’s gonna attack you and your body, your brain body system will respond in one of three ways. You’re either going to fight this thing, you’re going to run away from this thing, or you’re going to nice, well, everything’s fine. It’s okay. You’re going to try to appease it and calm it. So we call these your basic stress responses, fight, flight, and fawn. If none of those work, you shut down. Because if you’re about to die, it’s better to shut down than to be completely online and active. So then you go into freeze. And what you experience in freeze is like a numbed out sensation, you feel floaty and like disconnected, might feel like you’re watching yourself from above. There’s this sense of like existential dread. check. Yeah, right. And this feeling of like, huh.

Rebecca Tolbert (11:05)

I kind of feel like I’m dead or I wish that I were.

JoAnn Crohn (11:11)

That’s deep and morbid. Yes, okay.

Rebecca Tolbert (11:14)

but it’s like a pretty intense, but also like weird disconnected feeling. It feels horrible. But it’s an adaptive response that your body has when you’re stressed. And if you can’t get away from this thing and you can’t fight this thing and you like fail at navigating this stress, your body in order to like protect you goes into freeze.

Rebecca Tolbert (11:43)

All right, so that’s some context of what’s happening in your brain body system. Right. So shame. Shame is a very disconnected, I am bad, I am a failure feeling. If my thought is I am a failure and I have a paleolithic nervous system, I am a failure means I’m about to die.

JoAnn Crohn (12:13)

Cause it’s like you can’t fight, you can’t fawn, you can’t flee. You’re basically in there in place.

Rebecca Tolbert (12:20)

Yeah. And so if I’m a failure, if I’m inherently the worst, right, like, that’s what I hear people say.

Brie Tucker (12:27)

That’s that internal voice, yes, yeah.

Rebecca Tolbert (12:30)

i’m the worst person ever i have heard that so many times i am such a failure everybody else is better than me at everything i am the worst,

Brie Tucker (12:33)

I suck at everything.

JoAnn Crohn (12:41)

Like that’s sometimes inside my head, honestly, Rebecca. 

Brie Tucker (12:45)

I was just going to say anyone who says they have never experienced that thought is a liar.

JoAnn Crohn (12:51)

I know some people don’t, they don’t experience it. Like I don’t think my husband experiences it, no.

Brie Tucker (12:57)

Never in his life. No.

Okay, I don’t- he and I are gonna have some talks next time we hang out.

JoAnn Crohn (13:03)

He doesn’t go there, he says. Yeah. No, good for him. Good. mean, and I don’t think other people like it’s interesting. It is really interesting. But yeah, tell us more.

Rebecca Tolbert (13:06)

Yeah. that’s kind of everything that’s going on, right? Like in your brain body system. And you get into this like freeze state, and you’re just kind of like, and then you feel like, my gosh, the world isn’t real. Like, I feel like disconnected and weird. And all I can do is keep spiral thinking about like how I’m so garbage. Check. Yeah. Yeah. And so all of this is happening. And it’s much more likely to happen when it’s something that like, hits a nerve. Okay. Right. So for example, we talked about earlier being late all the time. I was late every single time I drove myself to school when I was in high school. Every time it was my responsibility to get to school. I was like at least 15 minutes late. Just plain never not that right. And I would get into these like huge like shame spiral, freeze disconnect things literally every time I was getting in the car and trying to go somewhere because I was like, my gosh, I’m like the worst person ever. Why can’t I get this together? What’s wrong with me? Like I’m such an idiot. I should be able to do this, but I can’t and like all of that stuff, right? And when you have ADHD, there are certain things that you’re expected to be able to do folks with ADHD, I would have to like look up this stat, but it’s something like seven times more negative feedback than there are some leaders.

JoAnn Crohn (14:51)

That is interesting. I’m just looking back at my childhood and everything and like you, I was a distracted type, but my sister had been diagnosed with ADHD. My dad was diagnosed with ADHD. And yet since it was all happening for me internally, I’d never showed any signs of it. I just looked like this people pleaser perfect child when in the inside I was really, really struggling with everything.

And so they get seven times more negative feedback. Is that for the late behaviors? Is that what kind of behaviors are?

Rebecca Tolbert (15:24)

It’s things like, hey, pay attention, pay attention, pay attention. Hey, Stop throwing rocks at Timmy stop whatever right like

Brie Tucker (15:30)

Doodling.

JoAnn Crohn (15:37)

Take a side of the sidewalk and stick to it.

Brie Tucker (15:41)

Do you have personal experience with that one, JoAnn? 

JoAnn Crohn (15:44)

Yeah!

Rebecca Tolbert (15:46)

Right? I’m like, I’m a mom too, right? And my child is a lot. He’s two and he’s wonderful and I’m obsessed with him. And I’m like

Rebecca Tolbert (15:58)

Get it together, dude.

Brie Tucker (16:00)

It’s a lot when you already have your own dysregulated stuff going on. And then to have like, think any small child, that’s a lot. If you have your own things going on too. mean, kids alone, like they are hard. We love them endlessly, but they are hard. But if you already have this thing where you’re easily distracted, my God, a toddler would have me on 24 seven. I think they did when my kids were little. I have high schoolers and college kid now, but.

JoAnn Crohn (16:27)

Well, let’s talk about those things that we fail at as ADHD women that like we’re given negative feedback about. I will tell you one thing I feel at is keeping a calendar that I stick to. If they are not appointments that I have to physically be at, even Zoom or online, if they are not things I have physically be at, I will totally go against all of my own plans. I will even get mad at my own plans because they’re putting me in this structure of telling me what to do.

And I want to know that as that failure, Rebecca, is that common in ADHD? ⁓

Rebecca Tolbert (17:01)

my gosh, the whole don’t tell me what to do thing is something I literally talked to all of my coaching clients about. ⁓ man, I have a theory that is not really grounded in anything. But I think that there is a certain general don’t tell me what to do part of ADHD. I think it’s based in and this is another reason why we’re more likely to fall into these shame spirals. Folks with ADHD have emotional regulation issues.

So there’s that frustration of like, don’t want to do this thing. And where somebody else who’s neurotypical might be like, I don’t really want to do this. I’m going to do it anyway. when you’re need, she’s like, this is so stupid and why does this even exist? And this shouldn’t even be a thing. And then there’s like this justice piece where it’s like, you know what? This isn’t even how the world should be running. And so the fact that I have to do this in order for that thing to happen, and this is just so dumb and I hate it. And so there’s all that.

JoAnn Crohn (17:58)

I literally had this fight with the school emergency card. The emails to keep, I do it every year, I did it this year too. I had to get like 10 emails about this emergency card needing to be updated before I would do it because I thought it was a stupid use of my time. I was like, they already have this information. Nothing has changed. This thing takes me like, look at me. This thing takes me 10 minutes to do. I shouldn’t have to do it.

Brie Tucker (18:20)

You’re fighting at this point. The freeze isn’t there, but the fight is, man. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (18:24)

⁓

No, but that’s common Rebecca

Brie Tucker (18:28)

I love how it starts with like, you have this task that you don’t want to do, right? Like, I don’t want to clean my bathroom, right? I just don’t want to. I hate it. takes forever, whatever. By the end of the shame spiral and by the end of the spiral thinking, I’ve already figured out how to solve world hunger. I’ve decided how women should take over all major political offices and how I’m going to create this gadget to clean bathrooms, like the iRobot, but for bathrooms. I’m going to make those little scrubber bubbles become real.

I’ll never do it because I can’t follow through with anything, but got the idea.

JoAnn Crohn (19:02)

Well, there’s the other thing, Rebecca. This is something we hear a lot from our coaching clients and everything that I can never follow through on things. And I’m assuming that this has something to do either with the overwhelm of motherhood or even some ADHD qualities. And I want to know your opinion on this right after this.

Something we hear a lot from our members in our balance community, Rebecca, is I can’t follow through. And it’s something that I hear from a lot of women. Is that an overwhelm quality? Do you see that more in women with ADHD? Like, what’s your interpretation of this?

Rebecca Tolbert (19:39)

So we talked about the whole nervous system stuff, right? When your nervous system is activated, it takes energy from the front part of your brain and puts more energy towards the back part of your brain. Back part of your brain is where you’ve got your basic breathing, heart rate, sweat glands, stomach function, like all that stuff that’s back there. The front part of your brain is used for things like follow through and organization and language, which is why you can’t get your words out when you’re mad. Check. And task initiation and persistence and all of that like lives in the front part of your brain. And so if you are experiencing chronic stress, not like stress and then you get regulated, right? Because that’s Normal. If you never experienced stress, you’d be super bored. But if you are chronically stressed, then you’re kind of frying out your whole brain system.

Brie Tucker (20:44)

But there’s hope, right? Like, my brain will bounce back? Please.

JoAnn Crohn (20:47)

What I’m wondering here is along with Brie’s line. I’m like, we hear this chronic stress and we’re like, is it our destiny to live with this stress forever? What could we do?

Rebecca Tolbert (20:57)

The things that we can do is practice self-care.

JoAnn Crohn (21:03)

And that’s something that everyone will hear and be like, no, you can’t make me.

Brie Tucker (21:08)

Or they’ll say, I practiced self-care. I took a bubble bath and it didn’t work.

Rebecca Tolbert (21:13)

I’m talking about bubble baths. Yes. I made a little pneumatic because pneumonic. We love those. Because it helps me remember things. I call it the semperate pillars. They are sleep, eat, move, plan, relate, enjoy. So these are the things that are the best thing for your brain body system to get to like regulated. Your whole thing is like working. Yeah. And sleep is hard, right?

My kid didn’t sleep through the night until he was a year and a half old. He woke up every two hours because he had chronic ear infections. Okay. So like, I get it. It’s not like, oh, you just sleep. And I was like, was already teaching people this stuff, right? And so I’m like, I know that sleep is literally the most important thing for my ADHD and I’m not getting it. But at least I know that this is the most important thing and I’m not getting it. I know what I’m working with.

Brie Tucker (22:11)

Yeah. Okay. I have a question with that because it seems to me that if you have a problem with being able to follow through and do all the things that you want to do, and that kind of gets you stuck in this like thought process of I’m not good enough the way I am naturally, I gotta find the right organizer. I gotta like find the right system to be able to be more productive. It seems like the first thing many people jump to is, well, I just gotta stay up long.

I just need more productivity time.

JoAnn Crohn (22:42)

I gotta grind.

Brie Tucker (22:44)

Okay. I was going to say, so if we immediately default, which I think most of us do to trying to be more productive, what I’m hearing you say is that’s exactly counterproductive to giving ourselves the care that our individual bodies need with this new wiring that we have.

Rebecca Tolbert (23:03)

Yeah, because of the way that we’re wired. And this is anybody, not just somebody with ADHD. If you have ADHD, you’re more sensitive to this kind of thing. You’re more likely to get into a chronic stress mode. But everybody is in chronic stress a lot of the time. It’s really learning how to prioritize these things and say, OK, like sleep is really important. Eating protein in the morning before I like dive into my day is really important. It’s going to my brain function better for the rest of the day. Getting some movement in, that’s fun. Movement that you like.

JoAnn Crohn (23:43)

Not movement that you dread all day doing and then you’re like, should go do this and then are mad when you have to go do it. Not that movement. Movement, that’s fine. Got it. No, got it.

Brie Tucker (23:53)

Yeah, JoAnn, I’ve heard you say that so much about movement that we need to make it fun.

Rebecca Tolbert (23:58)

or else it’s like, cool. I’m running away from a tiger that’s trying to kill me. 

Brie Tucker (24:06)

I’ll try that. Maybe that’ll get me to start running. What are you doing, Brie? I’m being chased by a tiger!

Rebecca Tolbert (24:14)

it’s a stress thing, and it’s not a regulation thing. And so if you hate the movement you’re doing, and you dread doing it all day, that’s actually like increasing your chronic stress levels. We’re trying to decrease them.

JoAnn Crohn (24:27)

Also like bears like a little thing because I want to know what you think about this one. I just recently started mountain biking. I am serving as a coach for my son’s mountain biking team. Every single practice I have dreaded, but it’s not because I hate the mountain biking. It’s because of this inner shame spiral that I couldn’t keep up with everyone. I was going to slow them down. I would look stupid. All those thoughts in my head. So like how to distinguish between if it’s because you don’t like the movement or because you have all these other thoughts complicating the issue.

Brie Tucker (25:03)

Like you’re pre-wired to tell yourself you suck at it before you even try it.

Rebecca Tolbert (25:07)

Yeah. And so I think that that’s really good information for you to look at and be curious about. Like, okay, I’m getting into like a negative thought spiral around this activity that I actually liked doing. Yeah. And so then it’s asking yourself the question like, okay, is this helpful? You might be worse than everybody else. Not is it true? Because it might be true. But is it something that deserves your energy? Because your energy is precious. like, yeah, Taylor Swift says that. You might look stupid. And you might be the worst one there. That might be true. Is it still something you want to do?

JoAnn Crohn (25:41)

Like Taylor Swift said. Yes. Yes.

So is it helpful? Asking yourself, is it helpful? like, for instance, when I was younger, I wouldn’t want to go to the gym because I wasn’t afraid that I was dressed appropriately. Like I wasn’t wearing the best outfit, people would make fun of me, that sort of thing. Looking at that versus the actual feelings I had about the particular movement, like exercise. I mean, like I’ve always been one of those people who like the first five minutes of an exercise thing, it’s hard, your body’s adjusting, moving from not moving to moving. And then after those first five minutes, it’s like, ⁓ there’s like the adrenaline and euphoria and all the benefits that come in. And I guess the reason I bring this up is because I feel like I was like this for so long. And I don’t want people to get stuck in these negative thought spirals that don’t have anything to do with the movement itself and have it be a reason that they don’t consider a movement.

Rebecca Tolbert (26:46)

Yeah. Wow.

Brie Tucker (26:49)

So much deep thinking is happening while we’re doing this, people. We’re all like, wow.

JoAnn Crohn (26:55)

That’s me. Let’s go into the deep things and let’s make it really personal and deep all the time. All the time. Let’s really go. Because I was going to ask you about your pillars and sleep, eat, play, move.

Rebecca Tolbert (27:07)

Sleep, eat, move, plan, relate, and enjoy.

JoAnn Crohn (27:14)

Plan, relate, enjoy. I think that many moms right now, I can speak for them, at least the people that I talk to, that enjoy part’s a hard one.

Rebecca Tolbert (27:23)

Yeah. Yeah, that is.

Brie Tucker (27:26)

So like, okay, so here you are. You are a typical mom and you either have ADHD, you think you might, or just you’re, you feel, yeah, you just feel like you are just overwhelmed, out and not doing well. What are some ways that you can kind of help yourself reconnect? We’ve already established that it’s definitely not taking a bubble bath. And if you have no idea where to start.

Brie Tucker (27:55)

yes. Yes. Let’s be clear. I do use bubble baths as a form of self care because I have to actually stop everything and be like, I am going to stop having this interaction with you this evening. And I’m going to go take my bubble bath by myself with my candles and my music and my oils, because that’s what I love. And it makes me feel better. But I guess what we’re trying to say is it doesn’t necessarily end there. A lot of people need more or different things. But if you have no idea.

Is there like an exercise or something that like maybe we could like talk about that like someone could do to kind of start shifting themselves into a place where they can feel relaxed and or can find those things that they enjoy again?

Rebecca Tolbert (28:33)

Yeah, I love that question. I actually give this homework to my coaching and therapy clients often. OK, which is OK, this week I just want you to pay attention to what you want, what you like and what you don’t like. Little things, right? Like, I actually want to listen to this music today. I want this for lunch as opposed to like it doesn’t matter. ⁓ Whatever.

JoAnn Crohn (28:59)

Yeah.

Rebecca Tolbert (29:02)

I like this article of clothing so I’m gonna wear it today.

JoAnn Crohn (29:07)

Being attuned to the wants is very, it’s a really interesting exercise because a lot of women, they don’t know what they want. It’s been giving that power away to people for so long. Like even you just telling me, pay attention to what I want. I’m like, I want things, what? Like.

Brie Tucker (29:22)

Yeah.

Rebecca Tolbert (29:23)

Thank you!

JoAnn Crohn (29:25)

You just get second to seeing of like getting mad at everything not going your way, but you have no idea what you actually want. So I think that’s really interesting. And then what do do with it once you figure out what you want?

Rebecca Tolbert (29:37)

So we do that for like a week. You don’t have to do anything about it. Just like be curious about what you want and then slowly try to put some thought process around how do I make that happen for myself. Okay. And not beat myself up about doing it because we’re trying to regulate the nervous system.

Brie Tucker (29:39)

Okay.

Rebecca Tolbert (30:01)

So beating ourselves up about doing the things to regulate our nervous system flies in the face of what we’re trying to do in the first place, right? So like, I need to go to bed, but I shouldn’t because I should be doing this and I should be doing that and I should be doing this. And like the house is still a mess and I’m a terrible mom and my kids are going to grow up and hate me because the house is messy right now. And now you have like all this stuff, right? And you’re not like bringing yourself back down so you can go sleep.

Brie Tucker (30:31)

I’m curious if you are actively having these shame spirals all the time during your day and going to sleep isn’t an option at that moment, right? I’m spiraling and it’s two o’clock in the afternoon. I can’t sleep because I have to go pick up my kids from school at three or whatever, right? What is something like small that we could do to interrupt that shame spiral? Stop it in its tracks.

Rebecca Tolbert (30:59)

Love it.

Brie Tucker (31:00)

I know you said before about like asking yourself, this helpful?

Rebecca Tolbert (31:03)

But sometimes you can’t get there. Right. Because that’s higher level thinking. And sometimes we need to interrupt it before we do the higher level thinking because we’re in our brainstem as opposed to our prefrontal cortex. And that’s where the higher level thinking lives. Right. So what I have people do, I call this again, I love little names and things. I call this like the 3S protocol. Right. So what you’re going to do, you notice, OK, I’m like kind of spiraling out and I feel like I’m the worst person ever and everything is terrible. You engage your physical senses, okay? So you can quiet yourself and listen for three different sounds. Or you can touch and notice the texture of your shirt, right? So touch. I have like lotion right here. You can like smell something. It’s like a citrus kind of scent.

Right, so you engage, first one is sense. One of your five senses and be very present with what that sensory experience is. The next one is safety. So you do a safety check. I’m looking around, my attic is in the office and it’s messy up here, but there’s nothing in this attic that can hurt me. I am physically safe in this moment. And so you scan the environment and you’re like, okay, I’m physically safe. So sense, safety check, and the third one is psi. So any type of breathing exercise is helpful here. I like to do something called the physiological psi, which is…

sounds like you just finished crying, right? Yeah. And it’s like your body’s reset that it does automatically if you’ve been crying or if you’re about to fall asleep. But you can do it consciously and you do it for 20 seconds and that can help like reset your system. Interesting.

JoAnn Crohn (33:06)

So the sense, taking one of your senses, either touch, smell, but sight count on those senses.

Rebecca Tolbert (33:13)

Yeah, so if I’m doing sight, I’ll be like, pick a color and I’ll look for like three blue things.

JoAnn Crohn (33:19)

Okay, cool. Sense, safety check, making sure you’re physically safe in your area. And then that sigh, that breathing exercise to really get yourself back on track when your nervous system is just on overload because of ADHD or not ADHD. This can help anyone who’s on overload. So this is amazing. Rebecca, can you tell us something that you are looking forward to? We like to end every podcast episode this way.

Rebecca Tolbert (33:37)

Yeah. I’m excited about the book that I’m writing, which has all this material in it. I’m really excited. I’m starting to do these mini retreats for ADHD women where they come and they spend either half day or full day with me and we like deep dive into COVID strategies, all this kind of, I’m super excited about it. And I just started doing those and I like cannot wait to do more of them. I’m really excited.

JoAnn Crohn (34:10)

That is really exciting. That is really exciting. Well, Rebecca, thank you so much for coming on, sharing with us today all of the strategies we can use, how we can put self-care into our lives, why we might be experiencing the things we are experiencing. And to everybody out there in Podcast Land, all of our lolas, remember the best mom’s a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker (34:34)

Thanks for stopping by.